The quality is there...maybe lacking in a couple of areas, but in general we've got a decent squad. For me its all down to how that squad is managed now.
As said earlier, Ghana have shown that the Czechs are beatable. As for Germany - IF we can stop them from scoring, we WILL beat them....Robbie Keane will have a field day with their defence.
One more thing, Clinton Morrisson <--- Now THATS a headless chicken. Doyle to partner Keane without question.
The Czechs look poor without their first 2 strikers. The guy they had on in place of Koller looks worse than Doherty even. I agree that if everyone is fit we'll be able to cope in this group. We were relying on players returning from injury or warming the bench for their clubs too much last year.
Given that the title of this thread includes ''the Future'' I'm going to quoute Gerard Houllier from today's Sunday Telegraph, commenting on what he's seen of the WC so far:
'Football is changing - and for the better. [The] World Cup has seen such a resurgence of skill & speed to suggest that Greece's triumph...was a once off.
The trend towards skill rather than systems, or at least the higher priority given to skill, will be good for the game's future because it points the way for the young, who will have to work on speed & technique if they want to make their living from the game."
I think this observation is spot on & I've felt for ages now that the game in the rest of the world is moving on from the style played in UK & Ireland, though I still think that England's direct approach could still reap rewards simply because many of the major countries are still ''work in progress'' whereas this England team is closer to its peak.
Do we have players skillful or athletic enough to thrive in the current environment? Yes: Duff, Robbie, Doyle, Given, Finnan, McGeady, Steven Reid (certainly in athleticism).
Are any of these playing in a culture that emphasies these merits? No, not really, but we've debated this to the nth degree.
At one stage I honestly thought Kerr had twigged this. The way we played in Paris & the fast moving passing game we played against Faroes 4 days later. Don't laugh: the Faroes game was a classic example of how to go about winning a game against a minnow. Pass the ball quickly & confidently (not like England vs T&T) and the poorer teams can't cope. One subsequent failiing in my opinion was to treat Israel away differently.
Can we employ our better players in a team system mimicking those we've seen thrive in the WC? I like to think so. I accept that playing in a finals is different to qualifying. Sometimes the latter is a battle of attrition, but by & large I think Stan has got to combine the spirit of his era with the modern approach being exemplified in these finals.
To those on this board close to the FAI or with proper coaching experience, how does the FAI's Technical Development plan stack up? Is it simply churning out players for the Enmglish lower leagues, or is it a genuine attempt to turn out young players capable of matching the technique of the best abroad?
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 18/06/2006 at 2:17 PM.
On Doyle vs Morrisson: Morrisson for the immediate time being in my opinion. Doyle & Keane is still a rookie partnership. Clinton has the experience & has a knack of getting goals. Only if Doyle & Robbie play well together against the Dutch would I start with them.
Doyle to come of the bench in Stuttgart. Let Morrisson run himself ragged for 55 minutes. Not once did we have a threat from the bench to either (a) reinvigorate things or (b) capitalise on tiring defences in the last campaign.
Bobby Convey's performance against Italy suggests Doyle could do equally well. Only difference is that Convey has been an international for a lot longer.
My only caveat here is that if Stan feels that Doyle is genuinely just a much better player from comparing the two in training then let him make that call.
I'd be very happy if Robbie, Morrisson, Doyle & Elliott are all fully fit in early September.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 18/06/2006 at 2:11 PM.
Yeah ... I can't see the Germans losing too much sleep over the prospect of facing Gary Doherty for the last 15!Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Agree about Morrison - his general play can be poor sometimes but he has a knack of scoring important goals.
That wasn't my point. My point is that at least the Swiss/Israelies had a go. Did we have a go at home to France? No. At home to Switzerland? No. Away to Switzerland? Apart from the first 10 minutes, No. We had a go away to France because we were underdogs, even though they virtually fielded their reserve team, and because we had never-seen-before levels of support for an away qualifier that night. We finished 4th in our group and deserved it. We were technically hopeless, uninspiring, tactically clueless and plain boring for the majority of the campaign. In the short while that Staunton has been in charge, he'll be a miracle worker if he can turn all that around.
BTW, IF we scored against Switzerland? And at what point was that going to happen?! Having been at the game I can't recall.....
Nail on the head. At least someone here knows what they're talking about and not just spewing blind optimism. Its more against the Germans and Czechs that we need to play this type of game, as I said earlier, we need to start producing results in crunch games. That is the way to play, but the question stll remains - Do we have the quality to carry it off? Not in midfield I'm afraid.
Realistically the best we can hope for is third place. An improved seeding (3rd) for 2010 and hopefully a favourable draw. By then some of our younger players will have been blooded and hopefully Anthony Stokes will have come through by then.
Alot of the second ranked teams are gank - Ukraine, Sweden, Swiss, Poland etc. The Czechs and French will be in transition. I dont see anything coming thru in the likes of Denmark, Russia, Belgium, Romania etc.
Would be nice to qualify in 2008, we've only qualifed once which is not good enough. We threw it away in 96 and 2000.
They didn't have a go at Lansdowne. Switzerland didn't have a go in Paris, and got a point, they had to rely on a late equalizer in the return, a goal which in the end, put us out. Israel didn't have a go against the other three teams either, and were permanently either soaking up pressure, or chasing the game.
Anytime in the 90 minutes.BTW, IF we scored against Switzerland? at what point was that going to happen?
100% sure the team will ! Only have to believe in it. Most of their old players will leave in july so they'll have to start up again.
They didn't impress me anyway so far. Their win against the US was not because they were that superior. They just took the 3 points due to a bad performance by the US on that occasion.
As 4tothefloor said, we need a big result and stop that defensive being attitude. Reckon that a point in Stuttgart or Prague would be great but at home 3 points must be planned !
"Take care to get what you like or you will be forced to like what you get."
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
I think you're right we need to have a go and attack whatever team we play. We don't have the players to play a defensive game. We need to play a high tempo, pressing game. My point about Kavanagh is that he is not very mobile and will be caught out against the likes of the Czechs/Germans. O'Shea is more mobile, better tackler and would be better at winning the ball back when we lose it.That wasn't my point. My point is that at least the Swiss/Israelies had a go. Did we have a go at home to France? No. At home to Switzerland? No. Away to Switzerland? Apart from the first 10 minutes, No. We had a go away to France because we were underdogs, even though they virtually fielded their reserve team, and because we had never-seen-before levels of support for an away qualifier that night. We finished 4th in our group and deserved it. We were technically hopeless, uninspiring, tactically clueless and plain boring for the majority of the campaign. In the short while that Staunton has been in charge, he'll be a miracle worker if he can turn all that around.
BTW, IF we scored against Switzerland? And at what point was that going to happen?! Having been at the game I can't recall.....
Nail on the head. At least someone here knows what they're talking about and not just spewing blind optimism. Its more against the Germans and Czechs that we need to play this type of game, as I said earlier, we need to start producing results in crunch games. That is the way to play, but the question stll remains - Do we have the quality to carry it off? Not in midfield I'm afraid.
I have even started losing faith in O'Shea. I've stuck up for him before on here but his past few performances are not the kind of efforts you want in a ball winning midfield player. Until then we're better off with Kavanagh.... well until one of the youngsters make the grade.
I'd go for Doyle over Morrisson. Don't get me wrong Clinton does try when he puts on the green jersey but he is not consistent enough and Doyle looks like he has more of a presence because of his build and heading ability. Fingers crossed he gets off to a flyer with Reading in the PL.
As far as I can remember Shay Given made some outstanding saves, including 2 one-on-ones with Frei, against Switzerland at home. We created nothing. The reason the Swiss and Israelies had to chase some games is because THEY WERE HAVING A GO! But then again you're the same man that thinks Benitez at Liverpool hasn't a clue and you wanted him out last season. YOU haven't a clue my friend. Thats what watching Rovers does to you
1. There was 1 one-on-one for Given, one of the few things he had to deal with.
2. Obviously the fact we created nothing, excludes Ian Harte's 1st-minute header wide.
Switzerland created 1 chance, Israel created 2 at Lansdowne. If you're having a go, you create 5 per half. Both of them were happy with their point here.The reason the Swiss and Israelies had to chase some games is because THEY WERE HAVING A GO!
Wrong and Irrelevant!But then again you're the same man that thinks Benitez at Liverpool hasn't a clue and you wanted him out last season.
Rubbish and Irrelevant!!Thats what watching Rovers does to you
Last edited by mypost; 19/06/2006 at 3:23 PM.
So most of the replies think I'm right about us needing to have a go, except you of course mypost. I wonder why that is?
The relentless optimism of people that post here is heartening but in reality naive and short sighted giving the history of Irish teams playing away from home- make no bones about it, we are going to struggle badly in Slovakia, Czech Republic, Germany, Wales and even on last showing Cyprus...We have no leadership or character on the pitch required for these tests, I fully expect to finish at best third ahead of wales and slovakia, but that in itself is a tough ask!!
We need a few developments in the team take place for us to reasonably expect to qualify I believe.
1. (Most importantly) We need a decent midfielder (preferrably creative but this is not essential) who can partner Reid to emerge for us at a reasonably early stage of the campaign. O'Shea is not up to it and never has been. It is not impossible to believe that Ireland, Garvan or J O'Brien could fill this role by the beginning of 2007.
2. We need to find a decent central defender from somewhere. Perhaps Cahill from Aston Villa could do the job if he declares for us.
3. We need a decent option at left back. Maybe Finnan is an option there while Carr can play on the right. Once it's not JOS I'll be happy though Harte is hardly a world beater either (though he does weigh in with a few goals).
4. We need two of our strikers out of Doyle, Elliot and Morrision to be performing well next season to give us options in attack with Keane. Perhaps Adam Rooney will be another choice in the later stages of the campaign if he continues to get his game for Stoke next year though only time will tell if this is the case.
I don't think it's impossible to believe that the left back problem and the lack of options is attack could be satisified it's the other two points that I think will cause us the most concern.
Last edited by youngirish; 21/06/2006 at 12:26 PM.
If S. Reid could step up one more gear then I believe we can get out of this group. How he performs will be key. I am still not convinced that Germany are a true top team again. A fully primed Ecuador would have scored in the first minute yesterday. And watch them really struggle against the Swedes. The Czechs my bet for the WC look a spent force without Koller or Baros up front. We will need to play EVERY game at a high tempo both home and away. We will not win every game at home. So picking up points on the road will be crucial. We are just about good enough to get a second spot in this group.
Agree with youngirish John O'Shea is a waste of space and an excuse of player...**** off John and grow a pair of Balls, then and only then should he wear the green shirt!
I don't know why people are being so pessimistic. I think there are grounds for optimism.
- we only missed out on qualification for the WC even though most of our players did not play to their potential. I think they can and will play better.
- we have a new coach who wants to play a more attacking pressing game. A game we are a lot more suited to.
- we have a good defence, good wingers and good strikers. Central midfield need sorting out but we have options to try there.
- Germany and Czech Republic have not looked too good in this WC. I wouldn't fear them.
The Czechs have certainly blown hot and cold so far, but Germany are playing attractive, attacking football and look good for at least a quarter final spot. Even Ballack, who previously did not give them much chance, has come out in support of Klinsmann and wants his contract extended
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