Football question?

**the 12 th man** · 30/05/2006, 8:28 AM

EDIT: In a penalty shoot-out:

Any Refs or anybody have a view on this?:
Penalty kick strikes the cross bar and goes downwards and hits the goalkeepers back(standing on/beside his line) & goes into the goal.Is the goal allowed?

**Roo69** · 30/05/2006, 8:33 AM

Im not a ref but i would say yes, the goal should stand.

**Hitman** · 30/05/2006, 9:23 AM

I'm not certain, but I think if it's a penalty shoot-out the kick is deemed complete when the ball stops travelling forward. In that case if it came back and rebounded off the keeper it shouldn't stand. I think.

**drinkfeckarse** · 30/05/2006, 9:55 AM

The only way that wouldn't stand would be in a shoot out, no reason for it not to stand during the actual game but I assume you meant a shoot out.

**Roo69** · 30/05/2006, 10:05 AM

Has there not been a few cases when a peno has been taken, hit the post came off the back of the keepers head and went in the net. The goal stood. For some reason i think this happened to France in the Mexico 56 world cup ?

**Real ale Madrid** · 30/05/2006, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Roo69

Has there not been a few cases when a peno has been taken, hit the post came off the back of the keepers head and went in the net. The goal stood. For some reason i think this happened to France in the Mexico 56 world cup ?

I presume you mean Mexico 86. Yep France were awarded a goal in a penalty shoot out against Brazil incorrectly when the ball struck the post and came back out hit the keeper on the back and went in. It happened so fast the ref didnt see it. The rules say as pointed out earlier that the kick is over when the ball ceases to go forward. An ordinary penalty is different obviously.

**the 12 th man** · 30/05/2006, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

The only way that wouldn't stand would be in a shoot out, no reason for it not to stand during the actual game but I assume you meant a shoot out.

It was in a shoot out.

**anto1208** · 30/05/2006, 11:24 AM

What happens so if the ball hits the cross bar bounces before the line ( stopped going foward ) but because of the spin it rolls over the goal line again with out hitting the keeper ?

**Schumi** · 30/05/2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by anto1208

What happens so if the ball hits the cross bar bounces before the line ( stopped going foward ) but because of the spin it rolls over the goal line again with out hitting the keeper ?

My understanding is that it shouldn't count in a shootout but I couldn't be certain.

**Dodge** · 30/05/2006, 2:15 PM

PM Reitoir here..

**John83** · 30/05/2006, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by Schumi

My understanding is that it shouldn't count in a shootout but I couldn't be certain.

AFAIK, that's correct. In a shootout, once the ball stops going forwards, it's dead. It's been awarded plenty of times though.

Personally, I think the rule's being intperpreted too strictly there. It's just meant to stop anyone scoring from a rebound, and it seems perfectly reasonable to let that sort of penalty stand.

**pineapple stu** · 30/05/2006, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by anto1208

What happens so if the ball hits the cross bar bounces before the line ( stopped going foward ) but because of the spin it rolls over the goal line again with out hitting the keeper ?

I don't know if that's actually physically possible though? You'd be lifting the ball and putting heavy top spin on it? Maybe an engineer or someone can clarify.

**John83** · 30/05/2006, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't know if that's actually physically possible though? You'd be lifting the ball and putting heavy top spin on it? Maybe an engineer or someone can clarify.

Sounds tricky. I could see it happening with a volley, but probably not from a dead ball.

**Bald Student** · 30/05/2006, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't know if that's actually physically possible though? You'd be lifting the ball and putting heavy top spin on it? Maybe an engineer or someone can clarify.

Divet.

**the 12 th man** · 30/05/2006, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Divet.

Goalkeeper gets a touch before it hit the bar..........

**pineapple stu** · 30/05/2006, 8:23 PM

But how does the top spin come into it? You have to hit over the top to get top spin and from the bottom to lift it onto the bar. Plus, the keeper's glove would take any spin off the ball. Similarly, possibly, with the divot.

**John83** · 31/05/2006, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But how does the top spin come into it? You have to hit over the top to get top spin and from the bottom to lift it onto the bar. Plus, the keeper's glove would take any spin off the ball. Similarly, possibly, with the divot.

No, Mullet is right. If there's a divot, you don't need any top spin.

**pineapple stu** · 31/05/2006, 12:44 PM

Ah yes - hadn't thought of the divot there...

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2006, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

EDIT: In a penalty shoot-out:

Any Refs or anybody have a view on this?:
Penalty kick strikes the cross bar and goes downwards and hits the goalkeepers back(standing on/beside his line) & goes into the goal.Is the goal allowed?

This actually happened in Mexico '86, France vs Brazil I think, in the last 16 or last 8.*

The ball hit the bar or post (can't remember) and came out bit hit the 'keeper and went back in. The keeper was a few feet off his line at the point of contact. The goal stood. I'm not sure what you mean by "beside his line".

However, following frantic efforts from the TV analysts to see exactly what the rule was, it transpired that the goal shouldn't have been allowed. Once the ball had hit the woodwork and travelled outwards the penalty should have been deemed to have been missed. In effect the penalty was scored from a rebound.

There was a certain "moral justice" in the outcome though, because the same goalkeeper had committed a totally blatant professional foul in normal time. What would have been a certain red card these days only attracted a yellow. It was only a free kick and France missed so Brazil completely got away with it. Not sure about the teams, but recall the scenario well!

Has Reitoir seen the question?

* The exact question was what happens if the keeper was actually ON his line. This is different I suppose.