Football question?

**the 12 th man** · 31/05/2006, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

* The exact question was what happens if the keeper was actually ON his line. This is different I suppose.

The reason I said on/near the line is that I think the Goalkeeper is (strictly speaking) supposed to be on his line while/when the kick is being taken but in reality that seldom happens as the keeper sometimes move out a bit as the ball is struck.

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2006, 1:00 PM

In relation to the issue of "spin" I think the ball will always come out even if it had crossed the line earlier. In my opinion, a ref should be able to make a good guess as to whether a goal had been scored by looking at how far the ball had come back out. If it only comes back a foot or two from a hard shot it was probably a goal, if further it had probably hit the line or not even.

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2006, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

The reason I said on/near the line is that I think the Goalkeeper is (strictly speaking) supposed to be on his line while/when the kick is being taken but in reality that seldom happens as the keeper sometimes move out a bit as the ball is struck.

Yes, it'd be highly unusual for a keeper to dive directly across his line, so it'd be highly unusual for the exact scenario to happen. Technically, if the ball came vertically down and went in off the keeper, you could argue that the penalty hadn't yet been missed and a goal should stand.

But what I described did happen in Mexico and the wrong refereeing decision was made. Good call by those above that got it right!

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2006, 1:07 PM

sorry, in my hurry to answer the question, I didn't notice that the France vs Brazil game in Mexico was already mentioned

**John83** · 31/05/2006, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

* The exact question was what happens if the keeper was actually ON his line. This is different I suppose.

That's a good point. It could only strike the keeper's back while going backwards if he'd left his line!

Not that that rule is enforced at all. I remember Dida taking the **** in a recent Champions League final shootout.

**Aberdonian Stu** · 31/05/2006, 4:32 PM

Incidentally the France-Brazil game was a quarter final.

**Bald Student** · 31/05/2006, 6:54 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ah yes - hadn't thought of the divot there...

Where did you think the divot would be?

**pineapple stu** · 31/05/2006, 10:16 PM

What a rubbish drawing! Stick to John Delaney pictures.

I'd envisaged the ball hitting the divot first, as it usually does. That's place it along the line from penalty spot to goal, but before hitting the bar. Something like straight kick, ball hits tuft at edge of divot, spins up, off the bar and over the line...

**Student Mullet** · 01/06/2006, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What a rubbish drawing!

I tought he captured your pineapple head quite well.

**lofty9** · 01/06/2006, 8:40 AM

The GK for Brazil in 1986 was Carlos.

**pineapple stu** · 01/06/2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

I tought he captured your pineapple head quite well.

Would you not just have copied and pasted a picture of Jason Lee?

**Pat O' Banton** · 02/06/2006, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

EDIT: In a penalty shoot-out:

Any Refs or anybody have a view on this?:
Penalty kick strikes the cross bar and goes downwards and hits the goalkeepers back(standing on/beside his line) & goes into the goal.Is the goal allowed?

A controversal descision in a game you were managing?

Just to muddy the waters then; what would happen if the ball struck both posts and went in?

**John83** · 02/06/2006, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

Just to muddy the waters then; what would happen if the ball struck both posts and went in?

Still depends on the question: did it stop going forwards at any point? It probably wouldn't be clear in that case, and would be given.

**Plastic Paddy** · 02/06/2006, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Where did you think the divot would be?

Quality picture BS. I take it your studies are in fine art?

(I now have a perfect picture formed in my head of what PS looks like. Tall and geeky.

It might be far from the truth, but that picture is now indelible...)

PP

**the 12 th man** · 02/06/2006, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

A controversal descision in a game you were managing?

Not controversial as such,my Team scored as described in the first post (off goalies back) and the Ref gave it,later on someone called me over and whispered "psst -You know that Goal should have been disallowed".

**John83** · 02/06/2006, 5:05 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Quality picture BS. I take it your studies are in fine art?

(I now have a perfect picture formed in my head of what PS looks like. Tall and geeky.

It might be far from the truth, but that picture is now indelible...)

PP

Actually, think of a shorter, fatter Michael Jackson with a sallow complexion. Make slightly less freaky.

**pineapple stu** · 03/06/2006, 12:50 AM

If you watched the UCD-Derry game today, you'll have seen me several times...

**osarusan** · 04/06/2006, 12:41 AM

If we call in the idea of spin, then I guess you could say that it is possible that even if the ball has hit the crossbar and is rebouncing away from the goal, it is possible that the ball is still spinning forward which would allow it to bounce back over the line. So if it hits the keeper first, he may have just stopped the spin from effecting a change in direction. It is surely impossible for a referee to see what spin (if any) the ball has.
on a slightly different point, if this happens during a game (as opposed to a shootout), the goal will stand, but who will be given the goal credit?

I remember in the last European Champ. Rooney had a shot which hit the post, then hit the back of the Swiss keeper`s head on its way away from the goal, and rebounded over the line. I thought it should have been given as an O.G. but he (Rooney) got the goal.
Also, in a Liverpool - Newcastle game this season, Crouch had a header which Given saved onto the post, it then rebounded off the post onto his hand and went over the line. Was considered an own goal, harsh I thought, as without his intervention it would have been a goal anyway.

**the 12 th man** · 04/06/2006, 7:18 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

If we call in the idea of spin, then I guess you could say that it is possible that even if the ball has hit the crossbar and is rebouncing away from the goal, it is possible that the ball is still spinning forward which would allow it to bounce back over the line. So if it hits the keeper first, he may have just stopped the spin from effecting a change in direction. It is surely impossible for a referee to see what spin (if any) the ball has.
on a slightly different point, if this happens during a game (as opposed to a shootout), the goal will stand, but who will be given the goal credit?

I remember in the last European Champ. Rooney had a shot which hit the post, then hit the back of the Swiss keeper`s head on its way away from the goal, and rebounded over the line. I thought it should have been given as an O.G. but he (Rooney) got the goal.
Also, in a Liverpool - Newcastle game this season, Crouch had a header which Given saved onto the post, it then rebounded off the post onto his hand and went over the line. Was considered an own goal, harsh I thought, as without his intervention it would have been a goal anyway.

Penalty shootout I watched Sat:Goalkeeper saves the ball by pushing it back out the way it came but pushed the bottom of the ball inadvertently putting backspin on it -you know what happened next and the goal stood,with the World Cup approaching this could very well occur again.