Gavin Mahon

[Plastic Paddy]

We already have a bunch of players of the same standing as Mahon - so why do we need another?

And their names are?

Better to focus on building the O'Shea and S. Reid partnership for the Euro qualifiers and bringing players like O'Brien, Ireland and Garvan into the picture over the coming years.

I don't think that JOS has the application or the edge to his game that's needed in the centre of midfield but there are precious few alternatives right now. Of the three youngsters you mention Garvan is the one that I think will establish himself most quickly in the senior side. Still not convinced that Ireland will establish himself in the Premiership with Man City.

PP

[ifk101]

And their names are?

Miller, Rowlands, Douglas, Kilbane, Kavanagh, Doyle, Delap ...........

I don't think that JOS has the application or the edge to his game that's needed in the centre of midfield but there are precious few alternatives right now. Of the three youngsters you mention Garvan is the one that I think will establish himself most quickly in the senior side. Still not convinced that Ireland will establish himself in the Premiership with Man City.

PP

I share your concern about Ireland - possibly another Willo Flood, although I'm not saying that both these chaps won't develop into international players given time. Its still too early to call.

[Plastic Paddy]

Miller, Rowlands, Douglas, Kilbane, Kavanagh, Doyle, Delap ...........

S Reid - automatic choice for me.

Miller - just not good enough. Totally bossed by Mahon in the midfield during the Championship play-off final. For Ireland he was anonymous against Chile when you'd think he'd want to seize the chance.

Rowlands - injury-prone season with QPR. Great (English) third-tier player, yet to have one full good season at Championship level.

Douglas - I like what I have seen of JD - good box-to-box midfielder who seems to have great fitness - and I think he's certainly worthy of a squad place.

Kilbane - his versatility (is it a blessing or a curse?) will mean that he'll probably be used elsewhere. Not enough "steel" to be a midfield enforcer as there's still too much of the long-eared puppy-in-the-park about his game.

Kavanagh - another cert for the squad in the next qualifying campaign.

Michael Doyle - had a reasonable season in the Championship last season but looks to have found his level. Needs to be playing at a higher level if we are to see him reach potential.

Delap - The "nearly man" of Irish international football in the last ten years and IMO so very unlucky. As for the last two seasons? Southampton and Sunderland. Says it all.

So of those you list, I'd have Reid, Kilbane, Kavanagh and Douglas in the squad. That leaves at least one slot for a strong centre midfielder and I firmly believe that Mahon - on his form last season - could do us a turn in that role.

PP

[ifk101]

S Reid - automatic choice for me.

Miller - just not good enough. Totally bossed by Mahon in the midfield during the Championship play-off final. For Ireland he was anonymous against Chile when you'd think he'd want to seize the chance.

Rowlands - injury-prone season with QPR. Great (English) third-tier player, yet to have one full good season at Championship level.

Douglas - I like what I have seen of JD - good box-to-box midfielder who seems to have great fitness - and I think he's certainly worthy of a squad place.

Kilbane - his versatility (is it a blessing or a curse?) will mean that he'll probably be used elsewhere. Not enough "steel" to be a midfield enforcer as there's still too much of the long-eared puppy-in-the-park about his game.

Kavanagh - another cert for the squad in the next qualifying campaign.

Michael Doyle - had a reasonable season in the Championship last season but looks to have found his level. Needs to be playing at a higher level if we are to see him reach potential.

Delap - The "nearly man" of Irish international football in the last ten years and IMO so very unlucky. As for the last two seasons? Southampton and Sunderland. Says it all.

So of those you list, I'd have Reid, Kilbane, Kavanagh and Douglas in the squad. That leaves at least one slot for a strong centre midfielder and I firmly believe that Mahon - on his form last season - could do us a turn in that role.

PP

.... and then we have Alan Mahon and O'Connor at Burnley, the Quinns at Sheff Utd, O'Donnell and Craig at Falkirk, Gamble and O'Callaghan in Cork, McPhail, ......., the list goes on.

The point I'm trying to make is that Gavin Mahon isn't different class to the players I mention above and, given his age and the fact that we don't know how he would cope with international football (Is he a Paul Butler?), I think it would be better to focus on developing the Reid/O'Shea partnership and bringing our younger prospects into the team.

[Plastic Paddy]

.... and then we have Alan Mahon and O'Connor at Burnley, the Quinns at Sheff Utd, O'Donnell and Craig at Falkirk, Gamble and O'Callaghan in Cork, McPhail, ......., the list goes on.

And still there's no-one apart from those already discussed who are as good as Mahon. And as for Gamble - isn't that where we fell out last time?

So he plays one game against Leeds that people on here see on the telly and he should start against Holland?!

I do hope that response isn't directed at me. If it is, may I politely suggest you read this and other related threads properly? A few of us have known about Mahon for a while, and don't need a Sky subscription to show us what our own eyes have seen, least of all in the play-off final.

PP

[DmanDmythDledge]

The point I'm trying to make is that Gavin Mahon isn't different class to the players I mention above and, given his age and the fact that we don't know how he would cope with international football (Is he a Paul Butler?), I think it would be better to focus on developing the Reid/O'Shea partnership and bringing our younger prospects into the team.

Exactly, nobody knows what he will be like. He has been in excellent form for Watford all season(not just the playoff final Tuff Paddy) and deserves a chance to show can he do a job for Ireland.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

S Reid - automatic choice for me.

Miller - just not good enough. Totally bossed by Mahon in the midfield during the Championship play-off final. For Ireland he was anonymous against Chile when you'd think he'd want to seize the chance.

Rowlands - injury-prone season with QPR. Great (English) third-tier player, yet to have one full good season at Championship level.

Douglas - I like what I have seen of JD - good box-to-box midfielder who seems to have great fitness - and I think he's certainly worthy of a squad place.

Kilbane - his versatility (is it a blessing or a curse?) will mean that he'll probably be used elsewhere. Not enough "steel" to be a midfield enforcer as there's still too much of the long-eared puppy-in-the-park about his game.

Kavanagh - another cert for the squad in the next qualifying campaign.

Michael Doyle - had a reasonable season in the Championship last season but looks to have found his level. Needs to be playing at a higher level if we are to see him reach potential.

Delap - The "nearly man" of Irish international football in the last ten years and IMO so very unlucky. As for the last two seasons? Southampton and Sunderland. Says it all.

PP

Great post.
We really are short of talent in midfield. As far as I'm concerned, Owen Garvan and Darran Gibson are the two players I'm hoping will come good. In the meantime, Gavin Mahon certainly deserves a chance.

[Plastic Paddy]

I was simply saying that he shouldn't be given a starting place just yet, let him prove himself in the Premiership and let's see what he's made of. Is he better than what we already have? I'm sure Staunton would have had him in Portugal had Watford not had the Play-Offs.

Fair point TP and apologies for the somewhat chippy response (a case of typing first, thinking later ). I see your point about Mahon proving himself in the Premiership first and, whilst I don't agree totally with that, I fully concur on the need for caution. Given that there's just one friendly scheduled between now and the start of the Euro 2008 qualifying campaign, I'd like to see him in the squad so that Stan and Bobby can assess him close-up. I certainly wouldn't advocate throwing him headlong into the German match, that's for sure. In any case, as ifk101 points out, the preferred CM partnership would currently seem to be S Reid and JOS with the likes of Owen Garvan maybe a season or so away.

PP

[Stuttgart88]

S Reid - automatic choice for me.

Miller - just not good enough. Totally bossed by Mahon in the midfield during the Championship play-off final. For Ireland he was anonymous against Chile when you'd think he'd want to seize the chance.

Rowlands - injury-prone season with QPR. Great (English) third-tier player, yet to have one full good season at Championship level.

Douglas - I like what I have seen of JD - good box-to-box midfielder who seems to have great fitness - and I think he's certainly worthy of a squad place.

Kilbane - his versatility (is it a blessing or a curse?) will mean that he'll probably be used elsewhere. Not enough "steel" to be a midfield enforcer as there's still too much of the long-eared puppy-in-the-park about his game.

Kavanagh - another cert for the squad in the next qualifying campaign.

Michael Doyle - had a reasonable season in the Championship last season but looks to have found his level. Needs to be playing at a higher level if we are to see him reach potential.

Delap - The "nearly man" of Irish international football in the last ten years and IMO so very unlucky. As for the last two seasons? Southampton and Sunderland. Says it all.

So of those you list, I'd have Reid, Kilbane, Kavanagh and Douglas in the squad. That leaves at least one slot for a strong centre midfielder and I firmly believe that Mahon - on his form last season - could do us a turn in that role.

PP

Add in the other names mentioned (& you could add Keith Andrews) and it just shows that currently we have more players playing at a certain (decent) level than ever before. Unfortunately, none is really good enough for what we need. Like I said last week, under Jack we had maybe 25 players in total to chhose from, it was just that the first 11 or 12 were actually very good. These days we've maybe 40 in the picture, but only 5 or 6 are very good.

Of the above listed, I think Douglas may have something to offer - he can get around and has a bit of bite to his game, unlike Miller.

Does anyone remember when Southampton had a good season, was it 3 yrs ago, 4 maybe? They had a poor start, very good middle third and bad finish to the season. During the "successful" middle third, Delap played as a defensive midfielder, doing little other than protecting his centre-backs. I tracked it at the time: when he played, Southamption did well, when he didn't play, they lost.

When Strachan left he was moved to right back where he's just another player. In my opinion he could actually play centre-back. He has all the required attributes, except maybe concentration. Very unlucky not to have more caps. For some reason Mick & Kerr both thought he is a RHM, which he most definitely isn't. He had to endure a humiliation against the USA pre-WC02 at Lansdowne when Mick played him out of position for less than a full game under the offer of "play yourself into our WC finals squad". He tried his guts out but wasn't good enough. How could he have been?

[CraftyToePoke]

not seen much of Mahon, how would he compare to Carsley in that role?

[Stuttgart88]

Good question. Will be interesting to see how Carsley starts the season. Another example of us having a large number of players of a decent standard, but not of the quality we need. He's far more experienced than a lot of the other options.

Everton struggle without him though. We can't rule anything out.

[CraftyToePoke]

will be just as interesting to see how Mahon starts the season, if he can step up, if watford throw a few quid at it and he can stay in the side etc.

was he at watford when thay were up a few years back? if so how did he fare?

at present id sooner see Carsley back in green over him, as he has cut it uptop for most of his career, and we will have enough guys learning the ropes of international football elsewhere in the side, without another late 20's guy in the middle of the park on a learning curve. Carsley indicated his willingness to return some time back a.f.a.i.k.

[Sligo Hornet]

As a Watford season ticket holder for many a year, I can honestly say Gavin Mahon has grown in stature as a hard working, hard tacking central midfielder.

When he has been missing the team definitely look to be missing the"Engine".He is not a player that is regularly out with a host of injuries, and despite his no-nonsense approach, rarely gets booked.

I feel that Stan should look at him, especially after a few Premiership games.

[youngirish]

Gavin Mahon an answer to our midfield problems? An average Championship player who's nearly 29 and never has played at the top level? Is this for real? Play Garvan instead he was just as impresssive in the Championship last season and may get better (and he's Irish which seems to matter f**k all to some people).

If we need blow in English players like Mahon then we are f**ked.

[Plastic Paddy]

Gavin Mahon an answer to our midfield problems? An average Championship player who's nearly 29 and never has played at the top level?

And there speaks the voice of someone who's obviously never seen Mahon play.

and he's Irish which seems to matter f**k all to some people

By which you mean Irish-born, don't you? Why not just say it?

["Me no second-class citizen", etc. Repeat to fade in a reggae stylee...]

If we need blow in English players like Mahon then we are f**ked.

Read the thread. By the accounts of some trusted observers Mahon is well aware of his Irish roots and thus, by the common consensus on this board, is well qualified to play for Ireland.

You've got to be on the wind-up. As they say in this little part of Ireland , " 'ave a wurd wif your self".

PP

[Fergie's Son]

What about the fact that he is 29? Seems fairly late to be making strides in international football.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Teddy Sheringham was 29 when he got his first cap for England. He had a fairly successful international career. Mahon would probably be only around for a few years if he became a regular in the Ireland squad but if he puts in a few good performances in the EPL next season he should be given an attempt to see if he can perform internationally.

[Fergie's Son]

Sheringham played at the highest levels previously though. Also, he doesn't seem to add much that Carlsley wouldn't. No harm in trying him though.

[Plastic Paddy]

Sheringham is one of the most intellligent players the modern game has seen. The fact that he is playing in the Premiership at 40 years of age says it all about him.
Comparing him to a half-decent Watford midfielder is doing him a major disservice.

I don't think anyone's comparing the two players on a like-for-like basis TP. I certainly wasn't. The point must be that it's perfectly acceptable to call players up at what appears an advanced age because you may end up with several years' top-line service thereafter, á la Sheringham. You may end up with another Paul Butler, but dem's de risks...

PP