Thankfully the Eircom League/FAI is (somewhat) of a democracy so this issue won`t be decided by four UCD fans dissecting internet posts for fun.
It might seem unfair, but its not the UN Security Council, nobody gets a veto.
I think we all know the FAI will dangle enough carrots in front of clubs to swing the vote by a whisker.
I don't agree there either, I recon the vote will probably pass comfortably enough. If nothing else, the FAI are good at playing politics, they wouldn't propose the vote if it wasn't going to pass.Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
It should be noted though that one of the proposals is to end the democratic nature of the league. The FAI will have executive power from here on in.
Leave Deportivo out of it.
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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Home Farm rent grounds almost on month to month basis. Theres no problem renting a ground if have long term lease like most clubs.
I have read it and don't see how its going to improve the situation. Starting point for this is that EL clubs lost 3m or so. Does anyone think after reading this proposal that the FAI have shown us how we will bridge that gap?
Some ideas are good undobtedly, but I wouldnt agree to it because the prize fund for winners is now 225000 - only one club can get that each year.
Bottom line is that this will automatically increase clubs expenditure
1. You must have two senior teams and an u20 team and your underage sides.
2. It will cost 7k more to be in the league
3. Promotions officer will costs the clubs a minimum of 30k
All the extra income is in prizemoney (except for the 10k promotions).
If you take the 65% of turnover, and you must increase your squad from 20 to 30 to have 2 adult teams with coaching staff etc. Say your club turnover is 1m, that gives 650000 for wages and taxes, or basically 12k a week. Based on 30 people thats 400 gross average. Or 20000 a year (considering that top players ear well over 100k) are we talking about slashing everyones wages in the league?
If you are a wealthy club (relative to others I mean) and you are at 2m in current expenditure they will be expected to invest 700k in non team expenses. Corks, Shels and Drogs could end up spending more on non wage expenses than it takes to run over half the clubs!
- ten team prem is too small - the over familiarity definitely bred contempt last time - reflected in a a general decline in attendances - the same teams, same games over and over - sometimes in close proximity to previous fixtures or cup meetings switched off even diehards - and the games themselves had a staleness about them - big mistake
- the 65% of turnover on wages seems to be unenforceable in practice
- the name changes are ludicrous - why don't we call it the Seria A1 or Lá Liga?
- UCD and Dublin City are in the Prem on merit - clubs in the first division bring nothing to a new league format that these two teams do not have and should not be allowed leap frog them just because they have 50 or 60 more supporters at games. The very fact that they have been bypassed by two clubs operating on meagre resources and poor support tells you all you need to know about the so called "potential" of these so called "bigger" clubs currently deservedly languishing in the second tier. Let them come up on merit and stay up the hard way - surely the acid test of whether they are truly viable footballing entities - all the evidence suggests they are not and rewarding their incompetence with wishey washey criteria for promotion is encouraging yet more mediocrity not "progressing the league"
A nominee for POTM
Oh, I'm shocked. You didn't even read what we had to say, did you? It's just UCD whining, so it can't have any merit.
We've repeatedly asked a simple question: how does the cherry picking of teams help the league? I haven't read an answer to my satisfaction. I, and as far as I can tell, all of the other UCD fans who've contributed to this debate, have no objection to wage capping, infrastructural development or any of a whole raft of sensible suggestions here. Though frankly, the following, which I wasn't aware of, gives me substantial cause for concern:
Much like I voted no in the citizenship referendum because I don't believe that the Dáil should have the power to redefine citizenship through legislation, I would oppose the proposal on that one point alone.
Other fans have other concerns:
A mere 10,000 from here. Figures from one-off matches mean squat. Most of that 24,000 weren't Shels fans. The number of LoI fans who payed in to support the league is staggering. I doubt you would see that sort of good will in England. Throw in a bunch of non LoI fans who wanted to see Deportivo too. That figure has no meaning at all. It'll be a cold day in hell before anyone in this league gets 10,000 to a league game, much less 24,000.
You can't spell failure without FAI
OK, I'll bite - Ask the financial types at any club, particularly Dublin clubs, and they'll tell you the difference Rovers make to the Premier as against UCD or Dublin City.
Couple of examples - there were more in attendance at the Dublin City v Rovers 2nd Leg play-off than had paid in to see Dublin City all season. 300 Rovers in Castlebar on Sunday, 700 in Monaghan, 800 in Kildare. Should I go on or merely point out that UCD and Dublin City would have to play each other nearly 10 times to reach the numbers we brought to Kildare for example.
Wishful thinking by fans of smaller clubs won't have any effect on the new set-up and the King Canute-like bleatings on this thread won't change a thing.
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
I'm sure Sligo would love a Premier Division consisting of Harps, Derry and Galway. I'm sure Cork would love Limerick and Waterford. Longford might want Athlone there. It's not the divine right of Dublin clubs to have their biggest local rivals there to boost their attendances nor is it the right of any other clubs. You could sit down and work out the 10 clubs who will yield the optimal average attendance figures and form your league if you like. Is that what you're interested in football for? Maybe it is, and if that's the case I just won't be seeing eye to eye with anyone who thinks along those lines. Myself, I prefer fair competition based on what happens on the pitch.
Unfortunately it was Depor who attracted this lot and many of them were never to be seen again...............
Who Cares?!
UCD fans are loudest in their objections because they are the established club who are most obviously at risk of being arbitrarily demoted. Other clubs like Sligo and Limerick are also in danger of missing out on a rightful place in the Premier Division (I don't want to dignify the name the FAI have come up with by using it - it's a clear sign of the amount of genuine thought they have put into these plans).
My main problem is with the people responsible for implementing this decision. Given the history, I can't see the FAI (and Niall Quinn) doing a better job of picking who gets to play in the top division than basing it on who are the best clubs at playing football.
Not to mention the ridiculous criteria - full of things like giving equal weight to progressing from the 1st to the 2nd round of the league cup as to finishing 1st or 2nd in the Premier. Already the indications are that the FAI have done their sums wrong and made many mistakes in the preliminary results presented to clubs.
We've also seen the typical FAI spin that the media eagerly lap up and repeat as fact without checking - "Steve Staunton was Walsall Assistant Manager"/"50% will be based on league performance".
Some of us are also fed up with the continuous "We have to give it a try, sure what harm can it do" mentality -
16-team league
12-team league
4 points for a win
Top 6/Bottom 6
10-team league
Summer Soccer
12-team league
Prim-Eire League
10-team league, etc.
Despite what some have said, it's not backwards thinking to say hang on a minute before rushing headlong into some new untested, unwanted format. There seems to be an idea out there that the Irish public are just dying to rush down to their local ground - "A standard league-based competition with promotion/relegation based on merit? No, that's not for me, if only they had a new and exciting format!".
Things that would improve the league:
- An effective co-ordinated marketing campaign; never been done apart from a few cheapo efforts - get eircom and RTE off their arse to take up the slack on this (e.g. GUINNESS Hurling championship/HEINEKEN Cup)
- stricter enforcement of financial responsibility; through proper UEFA licensing, salary caps, etc. If organised properly this will eliminate the unsustainable clubs naturally - if Home Farm or Shelbourne or UCD or whoever are prevented from spending beyond their means they will either need to increase income/attendances or they will get relegated through poor performance (SRFC last season; Waterford, possibly, this year)
There's some obsession in the FAI that you have to make drastic changes to the 'product' before you are allowed to relaunch it. Otherwise there's just no point marketing it. The FA Premier League did not get Gary Lineker to look over each team's results in the Littlewoods Cup or attempt to limit the number of clubs in the capital before their spectacularly successful relaunch. It's not the competion's name that the FAI should be copying!
SIGNATURESCOPE
arbitrary and spurious are the two words that characterise this whole mooted process
anyway in reply to WAR:
300 Rovers in Castlebar on Sunday, 700 in Monaghan, 800 in Kildare.
Bringing those sort of crowds do not make you more viable as a footballing entity, or more worthy of a place in a top tier than UCD or Dublin City. You seem to imply that 800 in Kildare or 300 at Castlebar is some sort of financial windfall. Its not - its peanuts in the general scheme of things. Eircom League clubs do NOT meet their costs via attendances - and LETS FACE REALITY HERE - never fcking will even in the sooopa doopa 'premiership' - where crowds will remain static or fall in my view due to the ten team nature of the format.
Calling it the "Premiership" and hoping 300 becomes 3,000 is just plain stupid. In an ideal world I'd want Shamrock Rovers or Limerick or whatever in instead of Dublin City in the top flight - but only if they win through on footballing criteria on a level playing field - which is more than possible even this season. Creating the spurious criteria is actually anti-football and should be opposed by all true football fans. Its the latest in a long line of failed quick fixes that will have us back at square one.
UCD are another completely unique footballing set up in my view - they bring something to the league that has a value beyond figures at the gate or a shiny new stadium, in terms of player development this league as a whole owes a lot to UCD's unique status over the years. The fact that they have survived in the top flight so long is again testament to the fact that other clubs have failed to capitalise on catchment areas and better situations. I dont think leap frogging them will improve this situation - it rewards incompetance and when incompetance is rewarded it flourishes
Will the FAI + Niall Quinn just decide the initial make-up of the top division and will there be promotion/relegation as normal thereafter, or no promotion/relegation thereafter, or will the "criteria" be used to decide promotion/relegation for ever more?
monutdfc- the criteria apply for only one year, then it's back to good old fashioned promotion and relegation. Except this time they're going to enforce licensing.
Which if they'd taken seriously the first time round would have avoided the need for this arbitrary crap for next year.
Thats the spirit lads !!!
Why dont you put a cap on the gates??
Lets say the first 83 in and then the gates close...
Whats the whole point in trying to do something that may make things better anyway.
Sure then you'd have nothing to complain about
John Delaney!! GET OUT!!!
www.ssdg.ie
Having fans as opposed to having no fans means you are a footballing entity. Having fans at games means atmosphere, means players will be seen, it is what the game is all about not playing in front of a couple of dozen people. It is soul destroying to see figures of less than a hundred at a game. I've seen it.
I agree that a place in the premier should be decided on the pitch though. But I have asked before and will ask again: What is the alternative?
Take out the premier**** and the off field criteria for promotion and it is a good document for the league.
Last monday nights farce has to be the final nail in the coffin in terms of standing still. What is the point in having clubs in the league, premier and the first who do not have any fans? And I dont include UCD in that as they are worth their place in the league.
CHF deserved their promotion last season no question but what is the point in them being there? Ditto monaghan?
KOH
NYHoop, you would have said the same thing about Longford less than 10 years ago. Legend has it that there were 50 people in attendance at Stephen Kenny's first game in charge of Longford Town.
Difference is when they got promoted their crowds increased. Yours didnt despite the fact that their ground is further from the town. Same with CHF zero increase in crowds since they went up. Like I said no point being there then.
KOH
Agreed so why not do that?
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
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