FAI proposals for future of Eircom League...

**Poor Student** · 29/05/2006, 12:23 PM

I'm pretty certain it was the old regime that relieved you of Roddy.

**pineapple stu** · 29/05/2006, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Originally Posted by Partizan

Look, if you go down do as one Rovers fan here said, take it on the chin and come back up. I think the proposals are perhaps the only concrete, professional and forward thinking plan that the FAI has ever dreamed up regarding the development of senior football in this country (no smart comments please). if this is done right, this could totally revolutionise the league from top to bottom. I'm in favour of the proposals and if Waterford are in line for the chop then so be it. I will not throw a big hissy fit and cry foul. Why because this is better for the League and the development of football in general even if it is at the expense of Waterford. If we go down, we go down full stop. We will come back as we have done before.

Right now UCD need to get their house in order as do many other Clubs including us. A couple of years sabbatical in the First Division might be what we need but you have to say that Waterford have a helluva lot more going for them than UCD in terms of infrastructure, marketablility and catchment area. UCD's future in the League IMO is guaranteed. They have and will continue to offer alot to football. However if I was a Dublin City fan I'd be sweating it right now. No ground, no support, no potential...

If anyone will be getting the boot in 2 years time it has to be this lot.

POTM.

It's not POTM - it's largely more uninformed tripe from Partizan.

There is nothing concrete or forward-thinking in the proposals. There is no concrete indication as to how we are to progress once clubs are cherry-picked. There is no concrete indication as to why this is very good for all of us. In fact, there are so few concrete facts that Delaney is having to recourse to threatening clubs about the consequences of voting against to get this through (as quoted in the papers at the weekend; will try and get a link source).

Take it on the chin?! Ask me hole. If UCD - or any other club for that matter; again, I can obviously only speak for UCD and UCD fans myself - get forcibly relegated, we'll lose three or four of our best players, as happens every relegated team. (Maybe we're just more ambitious that you) That alone will set the club back three or four years. What a superb way to move the league forward "from top to bottom."

UCD's place in the league is secured? I disagree strongly. However, regardless of that fact, these proposals will make a mockery of and bring ridicule to the league. Ask any non eL fan what they think of it and they'll laugh and call it typical gobsh!tery from the FAI. That's the pretty much unanimous response I've gotten. That's a great basis to boost crowds - alienate even further those who don't go to games.

Originally Posted by Partizan

you have to say that Waterford have a helluva lot more going for them than UCD in terms of infrastructure, marketablility and catchment area.

Potentially, I do (infrastructure aside). But it's irrelevant. We're ahead of you on the pitch, which is the best reflection of both on-field and off-field position. As the smallest club in the Premier, the fact that we can compete week-in-week-out for the last 12 years is possibly a sign that we do have our house in order?

**pineapple stu** · 29/05/2006, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Breifne

This is so rich coming from you. Not too long ago there was this club, lets call them tallaght rovers with no grounds, debts everywhere. And in danger of relegation. They decided they couldn't continue like that so they decided lets pay everyone 4% of what we owe them, steal a manager from your closest relegation rivals at a crucial time of the season and start from new.

Their massive debt gets taken off their shoulders, the manager turns out to be a lunatic who doesn't even last until his former club actually do manage to be the direct club to relegated this former great. Their fans discuss how great the supporters club and the now completely reformed tallaght rovers are.

A free stadium, and 96% of your debts wiped out. Every club in the world would be grateful to just still be in the league if they were in the situation that you have been in for the past few seasons. We may be riddled with debt and share a ground, but we have an arrangement with Bohemians. AC Milan and Inter manage to co-habitat, as do Roma & Lazio. That has nothing to do with anything.

I think, with respect, that your post - while largely valid - would carry more weight if Dublin City were to oust the person doing the exact same thing at that club.

**NY Hoop** · 29/05/2006, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Breifne

This is so rich coming from you. Not too long ago there was this club, lets call them tallaght rovers with no grounds, debts everywhere. And in danger of relegation. They decided they couldn't continue like that so they decided lets pay everyone 4% of what we owe them, steal a manager from your closest relegation rivals at a crucial time of the season and start from new.

Their massive debt gets taken off their shoulders, the manager turns out to be a lunatic who doesn't even last until his former club actually do manage to be the direct club to relegated this former great. Their fans discuss how great the supporters club and the now completely reformed tallaght rovers are.

A free stadium, and 96% of your debts wiped out. Every club in the world would be grateful to just still be in the league if they were in the situation that you have been in for the past few seasons. We may be riddled with debt and share a ground, but we have an arrangement with Bohemians. AC Milan and Inter manage to co-habitat, as do Roma & Lazio. That has nothing to do with anything.

Each and every club should be more worried about building up their own fan base, rather than relying on other clubs to bring their fans to increase up their coffers.

Stop making it personal. Your club will be gone soon. Examinership is better than liquidation btw. Amusing little revisionist rubbish anyway!! Trying to compare CHF with us

Pineapple IMO Partizan's post is POTM. Less of the siege mentality. Its getting old already. "Ask any non EL fan what they think of it". Hope you're joking. Who cares what they think? It is a way forward.

Also you say that relegation means that 3 or 4 of your players will leave and this sets back the club 3 or 4 years. That's if you have no ambition. We lost ALL of our players from last season and with a whole new team are unbeaten this year. It's not an anti UCD conspiracy. Who is to say that UCD wont be part of next year's premier?

KOH

**pineapple stu** · 29/05/2006, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

"Ask any non EL fan what they think of it". Hope you're joking. Who cares what they think?

Aren't they they very people we're trying to get to games?!

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Also you say that relegation means that 3 or 4 of your players will leave and this sets back the club 3 or 4 years. That's if you have no ambition.

Eh...no? Players always leave a club if it gets relegated. It's a fact of football. I don't see how we have no ambition if we're looking to keep on to our two Ireland U-21 internationals, for example.

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

We lost ALL of our players from last season and with a whole new team are unbeaten this year. It's not an anti UCD conspiracy. Who is to say that UCD won't be part of next year's premier?

We also lost a few players when we went down and walked through the league the next season. That's not to say it hasn't set us back. That's not to say it hasn't set youz back.

**Bald Student** · 29/05/2006, 2:16 PM

I've read through the document and I don't agree with the assumption that UCD should be in trouble. If the conditions are followed fairly, Shamrock Rovers seem to me the only first division team that could overtake UCD. I don't agree with the concept of picking teams but these proposals do, at least, seem to be transparant and probably as fair as you can get from this type of a system.

**pineapple stu** · 29/05/2006, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

I've read through the document and I don't agree with the assumption that UCD should be in trouble.

Should point out that I don't think we're beyond redemption, but we're certainly in a weaker position than the league table suggests.

Did you uncover any basis for allocation of marks for the off-field criteria on the bus on Saturday?

**Poor Student** · 29/05/2006, 2:22 PM

One thing I can't quite figure out. Delaney has been going on about geoprahical spread and there is a point in the document about it too, but is it factored into the selecting formula or not? I don't seem to be able to specifically find it.

**Dodge** · 29/05/2006, 2:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

I've read through the document...
I don't agree with the concept of picking teams but these proposals do, at least, seem to be transparant and probably as fair as you can get from this type of a system.

Shouldn't really form opinions on it without reading the document

**pineapple stu** · 29/05/2006, 2:24 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Delaney has been going on about geoprahical spread and there is a point in the document about it too, but is it factored into the selecting formula or not?

It's included in sustainability, I think. It's in there alright, but as part of something else.

**Bald Student** · 29/05/2006, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Shouldn't really form opinions on it without reading the document

I have. Sorry if I didn't state that clearly.

**Dodge** · 29/05/2006, 2:38 PM

D'oh!!!! I'm and idiot and aoplogy for not being able to read.

There's 15% there to be fooled around with (marketing etc) so its not totally transparent

**pete** · 29/05/2006, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

There's 15% there to be fooled around with (marketing etc) so its not totally transparent

Probably enough to get rid of Dublin City but no enough for UCD. I'd settle for that i suppose.

**Bald Student** · 29/05/2006, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

There's 15% there to be fooled around with (marketing etc) so its not totally transparent

There's a little room for interpretation in each of the criteria but the document does lay out how the marketing points should be allocated (below). It says the current attendances and the population of the area should make up the score. I still don't agree with the concept but there is much less room for manouver than simply saying a club should have good marketability or potential.

Target Markets / population
densities / attendance
figures (04 & 05 figures
already available)

100 points

Using population data to highlight densities against existing clubs
and the trends in their attendance rates.
Those applicants, which stand alone in areas of large target markets
and which have established a solid base of support as indicated by
their consolidated attendance figures will be allocated high scores in
this category.

**Poor Student** · 29/05/2006, 2:54 PM

Couldn't you argue both that UCD are the only club in the South East quadrant of Dublin and have huge potential or conversely argue that that there are too many clubs in the Dublin area? The parameters in the non-footballing part are still relatively undefined and subjective.

I see near the introduction they say that the Implementation Committee focused on to "Provide an adequate geographic spread of clubs" as one of the goals put forward by the Genesis Report.

**higgins** · 29/05/2006, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by northside hoop

Apart from the fact the Rovers home gates would be more than UCD and ICBINHF combined, having rovers in the premier league significantly changes the average crowd for the dublin clubs at least. I'm fairly sure that Rovers will provide boez with their biggest home gates of the season, and I wouldn't be surprised if the case is the same for Pats and Shels as well.

I think you UCD fans are underestimating the potential that 10 well supported teams in a Premier Division has.

I was always behind the idea of a large league probably around 16 teams but the past year or two I just think it would do more harm than good at the moment. I am now in favour of a more structured approach and think the 10 team idea is the way to go. I know this doesn’t happen until the 2009 season but regardless of it being 10 (which I think is about the realistic amount) or 12 I think the fact all games have a decent crowds is key to what the FAI are doing.

Its all about routine and getting fans interested in all the games. You have too many games now where the fans wont turn up. For me the worst for this is UCD Dublin and Longford. At nearly all other HOME games for Shels there is enough there to create some sort of atmosphere. Now I know the 1000-2000 is still nowhere near good enough but it feels like you have been at a game and not some kick about.

If you can get this type of feeling in all grounds every week of the league season I think it could help increase crowds.

You also forget a 10 team league means we play each other twice so we get two Shamrock Rovers gates and two Bohs Pats Cork Drogheda etc etc. You may not like this but I find UCD and Dublin City games to be absolute rubbish and I can only put my finger on the lack of atmosphere and interest there is.

How you can go to Belfield every 2nd week is astonishing in my opinion. Well done to any of you who do but your team has NO ambition!!! Its not Pragmatism its NO AMBITION!!! …. Everyone goes on about Dublin City here but I don’t mind them as at least Ronan has some idea of what he would like even if its highly unlikely ever to happen. You blame the college for your lack of development in Belfield ??? Is it not up to the club to sort that out…. You have been playing there long enough now to have a proper structure in place. You have been in the premier division long enough now to have put some money back into your ground. You cant turn around and say the FAI are giving you half a season.

Facts are if your club had any intention of doing anything other then surviving every single season you would have something worthy of calling a ground.
Your Stand is a complete disgrace and I would have asked to use a double headed coin in the toss for the League Cup final if I were you.

I'm not saying you don’t deserve your place in the 22 and I'm not saying you are the bottom of the pile either but some of the nonsense you lot have come out with trying to defend UCD is annoying.
Open your eyes and have a look at what your club is.

Actually can you tell me what your aims are for the coming season ?????

I follow Shelbourne as you might have noticed and I can sure as hell tell you exactly what the aim of Shelbourne FC is and its not to just survive. You could be playing the surviving game for the next 100 years!! Give it up and live a little. Try do up your ground or try something.

You are a joke of a club in my opinion, not because you are attached to a College in some form or have the name UCD but you have no intention of going anywhere or doing anything.

If we all adopt the UCD attitude we all sit around saying how crap everything is and never try anything new!! What do you expect to happen??? Do you think John Delaney and the FAI should release a statement saying the EL is doomed and we have decided to do nothing as we think its pointless, now carry on. You lot would be first to complain as usual.

**Roverstillidie** · 29/05/2006, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Breifne

This is so rich coming from you. Not too long ago there was this club, lets call them tallaght rovers with no grounds, debts everywhere. And in danger of relegation. They decided they couldn't continue like that so they decided lets pay everyone 4% of what we owe them, steal a manager from your closest relegation rivals at a crucial time of the season and start from new.

Their massive debt gets taken off their shoulders, the manager turns out to be a lunatic who doesn't even last until his former club actually do manage to be the direct club to relegated this former great. Their fans discuss how great the supporters club and the now completely reformed tallaght rovers are.

A free stadium, and 96% of your debts wiped out. Every club in the world would be grateful to just still be in the league if they were in the situation that you have been in for the past few seasons. We may be riddled with debt and share a ground, but we have an arrangement with Bohemians. AC Milan and Inter manage to co-habitat, as do Roma & Lazio. That has nothing to do with anything.

Each and every club should be more worried about building up their own fan base, rather than relying on other clubs to bring their fans to increase up their coffers.

i know i shouldnt bother but a few points.

we paid far more than 4% of our debts. i dont know where this figure came from, but not even close. and what we did was 100% legal and transparent.

and the 'stealing' of your non-contracted manager happend a year before examinership. and if by starting 'new' you mean in the 1st with 3 contracted players, yeah, what a deadly plan.

roma and lazio and the milan clubs share a municipal stadium 50/50. you are renting. not the same thing, not by a long shot.

as for your last sentance, thats laughable from a chf fan. i suggest you spend your energies figuring out where your next wage bill will be funded from than giving out about a group of fans who put their money where their mouths were and stopped these nefarious practices from ever happening again at their club

**chippie0001** · 29/05/2006, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

i know i shouldnt bother but a few points.

we paid far more than 4% of our debts. i dont know where this figure came from, but not even close. and what we did was 100% legal and transparent.

and the 'stealing' of your non-contracted manager happend a year before examinership. and if by starting 'new' you mean in the 1st with 3 contracted players, yeah, what a deadly plan.

roma and lazio and the milan clubs share a municipal stadium 50/50. you are renting. not the same thing, not by a long shot.

as for your last sentance, thats laughable from a chf fan. i suggest you spend your energies figuring out where your next wage bill will be funded from than giving out about a group of fans who put their money where their mouths were and stopped these nefarious practices from ever happening again at their club

Will you not be renting from the SDCC going forward? Do Cork not rent Turners Cross, so what is the difference in DC renting from another team?

**Roverstillidie** · 29/05/2006, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by chippie0001

Will you not be renting from the SDCC going forward? Do Cork not rent Turners Cross, so what is the difference in DC renting from another team?

the other team are in the process of selling up for one.

commercial opportunities like perimiter ads and refreshments for another.

you telling me cork, waterford, derry, rovers, milan and roma having a (for example) 200 year lease on a stadium is the same as chf renting dalymount?

profoundly different

**Ronnie** · 29/05/2006, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

I think you UCD fans are underestimating the potential that 10 well supported teams in a Premier Division has.

I was always behind the idea of a large league probably around 16 teams but the past year or two I just think it would do more harm than good at the moment. I am now in favour of a more structured approach and think the 10 team idea is the way to go. I know this doesn�t happen until the 2009 season but regardless of it being 10 (which I think is about the realistic amount) or 12 I think the fact all games have a decent crow is key to what the FAI are doing.

Its all about routine and getting fans interested in all the games. You have too many games now where the fans wont turn up. For me the worst for this are UCD Dublin and Longford. At nearly all other HOME games for Shels there is enough there to create some sort of atmosphere. Now I know the 1000-2000 is still nowhere near good enough but it feels like you have been at a game and not some kick about.

If you can get this type of feeling in all grounds every week of the league season I think it could help increase crowds.

You also forget a 10 team league means we play each other twice so we get two Shamrock Rovers gates and two Bohs Pats Cork Drogheda etc etc. You may not like this but I find UCD and Dublin City games to be absolute rubbish and I can only put my finger on the lack of atmosphere and interest there is.

How you can go to Belfield every 2nd week is astonishing in my opinion. Well done to any of you who do but your team has NO ambition!!! Its not Pragmatism its NO AMBITION!!! �. Everyone goes on about Dublin City here but I don�t mind them as least Ronan has some idea of what he would like even if its highly unlikely ever to happen. You blame the college for your lack of development in Belfield ??? Is it not up to the club to sort that out�. You have been playing there long enough now to have a proper structure in place. You have been in the premier division long enough not to have put some money back into your ground. You cant turn around and say the FAI are giving you half a season.

Facts are if your club had any intention of doing anything other then surviving every single season you would have something worthy of calling a ground.
Your Stand is a complete disgrace and I would have asked to use a double headed coin in the toss for the League Cup final if I were you.

I'm not saying you don�t deserve your place in the 22 and I'm not saying you are the bottom of the pile either but some of the nonsense you lot have come out with trying to defend UCD is annoying.
Open your eyes and have a look at what your club is.

Actually can you tell me what there aims are for the coming season ?????

I follow Shelbourne as you might have noticed and I can sure as hell tell you exactly what the aim of Shelbourne FC is and its not to just survive. You could be playing the surviving game for the next 100 years!! Give it up and live a little. Try do up your ground or try something.

You are a joke of a club in my opinion, not because you attached to a College or have the name UCD but you have no intention of going anywhere or doing anything.

If we all adapt the UCD attitude we all sit around saying how crap everything is and never try anything new!! What do you expect to happen??? Do you think John Delaney and the FAI should release a statement saying the EL is doomed and we have decided to do nothing as we think its pointless, now carry on. You lot would be first to complain as usual.

Shelbourne eh? This the same Shelbourne who on completing a league and cup double in 2001 attracted 900 people for their first home game the following season against newly promoted Bray who brought over 200 fans to the game?
This the same club that brought 100 fans to Flancare park for a possible title deciding game in 2004?