Yes
No
I can't vote, there's too much bull flying about.
What else can i think?Originally Posted by dahamsta
Do you honestly believe Irish Rail would deliberately put untrained drivers into new trains? Maybe these drivers cheated on the test & now afraid they'll be found out
I honestly don't know what to think pete, because I don't believe the drivers are telling the whole story, and I don't believe Irish Rail are telling the whole story. I fail to see how you can make such an authoritative statement with the same information. Do you know something I don't?
Ash seems to, though I've come to trust third hand word of mouth knowledge purple monkey dishwasher.
You can't spell failure without FAI
It does not matter what the situation is because wildcat strikes are i think illegal. If this was really a 100% safety issue don't you think all train drivers in the country would have supported?
The train drivers have been moaning about extra pay for new trains this year dispite the Labour Court disagreeing. I am not naive enough (in this case) to believe a coincident & seems almost everyone hear thinks the same.
Has it been explained what the safety issue is?
the safety issue is that the drivers feel unqualified to stop the train in an emergency. its quite straightforward.
management and drivers after the labour court agree to defer the introduction of the new trains until a: all existing hr disputes are resolved and b: training courses (due this weekend i believe) are undertaken.
managment instruct 2 drivers to drive the trains. drivers respond 'not on your life, i dnont know how to drive it and anyway, thought they werent to be rolled out for another few weeks'. management say 'shut up and drive'. 2 drivers refuse and are told to go home without pay. other drivers walk out in protest at the treatment of drivers who refused to act a: recklessly and b: against the agreed policy of reconciliation between management and the union.
it was a provocotave move by cie management and they got a slap and backed down. very unfortunate that people got inconvienienced, but the likes of pete and maxpover would do their nut if something happened and they found out the train driver didnt know how do drive the train. howls of derision about why they werent resposible enough to refuse.
This from Railnews in the UK. http://www.railnews.co.uk/news.aspx?id=2645
PP
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IRISH TRAIN DRIVERS CALL OFF UNOFFICIAL STRIKE
17 May 2006
TRAIN services in Ireland are returning to normal after train drivers agreed to lift their wildcat strike at 2 a.m. on 17 May.
Iarnród Éireann (Irish Rail) has also decided to delay the introduction of the new trains until next Monday in order to create space for further negotiation on the issue.
The talks on issues surrounding these new trains will be mediated by Phil Flynn.
In the early hours of 17 May, Mr Flynn “was forceful in persuading the locomotive drivers' committee to get their drivers to pull back from their unofficial action,” reported The Irish Independent.
The strike began at IE’s Cork depot when the first of the new trains was planned to be put into trial service on 15 May.
Other drivers at Limerick, Galway, Athlone, Westport and Dublin took action in support of their Cork colleagues, leading to widespread cancellations of services in western and southern Ireland.
Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat
You don't think you're jumping to conclusions when you don't even know?
have you seen the new trains, they have the same controls as the old ones, its not as if the steering wheel has been moved, they have the same throttle and brake as the old trains and work in the same way, the cab is a little different and there is a diagnostics board which does not concren them.
they have electric doors as their present trains do also, these trains have to do 10,000 miles on track before the public can use them so drivers have had many hours on them.
and as for conclusions, as the saying goes, the dogs in the street know this is about money, if it was safety all drivers would have refused to drive, not just 2.
also if it was safety, it would have been safety over the whole fleet and not just heuston based drivers.
also if it was safety on the new trains then why did drivers who drive the arrow commuter train go on strike, what does that have to do with the mark 4 model ???
look at the facts available, if it was safety why was it not ALL DRIVERS IN ALL STATIONS ?????
remember the dart issue where the drivers wanted more money for longer trains, similar.
Ignore Max Power, he is no more, the future is Ron Burgundy. I'd love to be Ron Burgundy but they won't let me........
A standard Volkswagen Golf and a Golf GTi look pretty alike on the surface of it, it doesn't mean they're the same thing. If the trains differ radically in weight, power, braking, etc, it would be a whole lot different to drive them.
Like I said, I refuse to jump to conclusions. The facts simply aren't out there. If you all want to think what your favourite newspaper tells you to, or what your blatant preconceptions lead you to believe, that's your lookout.
I'll stick with skepticism if it's all the same to you, and historical precedent: it's extremely likely that both groups are lying to us, and they're both to blame.
adam
Last edited by dahamsta; 18/05/2006 at 11:11 AM.
have you driven a train or talked to any driver btw ???
Ignore Max Power, he is no more, the future is Ron Burgundy. I'd love to be Ron Burgundy but they won't let me........
That's the bottom line. Like Adam I don't know the ins and outs of this but others seem to be experts.......based on what they've read in the Irish Independent. William Martin Murphy must be sleeping happy in his grave.
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
No. Have you driven one of the trains? And one the old ones? Can you list the statistics of the trains, beyond superficialities?
I'm afraid talking to a driver wouldn't do much for me, for the reasons outlined above. And above that, and above that....
i have spoken to drivers, i take the train 10 times a week and through using a service you get to know a little about it, drivers were looking forward to these new vechiles and getting away from the old ones.
i can list one stat, look above at how many people support them, if it was safety we would, if its about greed we won't.
also the points i listed about safety above and about the dart drivers also striking when now trains came into operation, not answered.
also about speed and breaking, not a problem, there are speed restrictions on the cork line, thats why 1 train i get is 20 mins late every morning, did you know that ??
ok and i went from a golf to a gtdi and didn't need a days training.
Last edited by max power; 18/05/2006 at 11:51 AM.
Ignore Max Power, he is no more, the future is Ron Burgundy. I'd love to be Ron Burgundy but they won't let me........
I refuse to believe that there was such a serious safety issue that the driver can now be trained in a matter of hours & start driving them next monday. They probably getting treble time pay at the weekend during "training"...
I judge train drivers on their previous actions & the drivers union have one of the worst records of any public "service" union in the country. They have striked in the past for more money to drive new Dart carraiges & other stupid issues.
I've no doubt the irish rail management incompetent but that doesn't excuse the "workers" actions.
FFS you sound like a saftey hazard. Leave them alone to do their job
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Maybe that's what this is all about - they want more money to drive with Max on the train.FFS you sound like a saftey hazard. Leave them alone to do their job
You can't spell failure without FAI
Maybe that's what this is all about - they want more money to drive with Max on the train.......
Ignore Max Power, he is no more, the future is Ron Burgundy. I'd love to be Ron Burgundy but they won't let me........
I judge Irish Rail bosses on their previous actions and Irish Rail has one of the worst records of any public "service" in the country.
I've no doubt the drivers are greedy but that doesn't excuse the "management" actions.I've no doubt the irish rail management incompetent but that doesn't excuse the "workers" actions.
You guys seem to think I'm supporting the drivers. If you read my posts without your inbuilt bias, you'd see that I've pretty solidly been a devil's advocate.
Want to prove me wrong? Point out in this thread where I've supported the drivers. Or Irish Rail. Or anyone.
adam
Last edited by dahamsta; 18/05/2006 at 12:07 PM.
Management went throught the internal dispute procedures, spent 117 million of taxpayers money to introduce new trains to give an hourly service between Cork and Dublin . They spent the best part of the year negotiating witht the unions, they went to the Labour Court, got a recomendation in favour of Irish Rail, they spent the last few months training and doing test runs between Limerick Junction and Hueston.
Imagine if they left the trains parked up in Limerick Junction (anyone who has got the Cork-Dublin train will have seen them there) rusting away until they gave in to ridicolous claims of more money and a reduction in the working week. What would we be saying about the management then? We would rightly condem management for not doing anything about the waste of taxpayers money. The situation had to be brought to a head.
Management of Irish Rail did everything IR wise according to the book. Union members with the support "unofficially" of course of their unions did not. They cost the country and taxpayers millions as a result of bully boy tactics that have worked in the past at Kent station in Cork. The Cork depot has been the subject of numerous "unofficial action" over the last number of years where the unions and their members refuse to abide by agreed procedures and dipute resolution recommendations.
Cork City FC
I'm not about to read over the whole thread again, but if you're referring to Pete's last post, or the last OT one from Max, they're not accusing you of anything, just stating their positions.
You can't spell failure without FAI
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