QuoteHow do you really feel BGR?Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
He could electrocute himself.Somehow I doubt your PC has the same potential for death and injury as a train.
Yes
No
I can't vote, there's too much bull flying about.
Somehow I doubt your PC has the same potential for death and injury as a train.
How do you really feel BGR?
He could electrocute himself.Somehow I doubt your PC has the same potential for death and injury as a train.
Last edited by strangeirish; 16/05/2006 at 3:46 PM.
Did you ever notice that in every painting of Adam & Eve, they have belly buttons. Think about that...take as long as you want.
Fair Point but the real issue here is Money not training. and anyway according to an IR representative on Radio 1 this morning there is no significant difference in the operating procedure for the new trains
Adam, no one objects to the train drivers getting proper safety training, we're objecting to the train drivers wanting more money to do the same job as before.
I think what most of us are angry about is the fact that they striked with no notice leaving (and estimated 35,000 I heard on the news ) people in the sh!t. They did this to get at the company but managed to FOOK everybody else in the process.
Selfish Wahnkers!
Couldn't they have gone back to the fcuking shed and taken the old one out and driven that instead??????? As for all the other w@nkers in all the other stations, they were just looking for a day off.
Someone give me a basket of eggs and I'm off down to Kent Station to find some of the fcukers.
@BGR, an IR representative is biased by default. Until someone from the press examines this issue properly, I have difficulty believing anything from either side. Given the laziness of the press these days, I could be waiting.
@Bald Student, the drivers say training is the sole issue for them not driving the trains. Refer to my response above as to whether or not this is to be believed.
@Shelsman, firstly the drivers don't have a say in what trains they drive, and I'd imagine you know that; so secondly stop stirring; and thirdly even if you're not stirring, tone down the rhetoric or I'll throw you out of the forum.
Yes/Maybe = 2 votes
No = 15 votes.
Regardless of whether the issue is money, training etc, adam, is that they're going to need public support and if they lose that/don't have it, then there's no point in them going on.
One sure fire way of losing public support is doing what they did yesterday.
The Model Club
Tell all the Bohs you know
that we've gone and won two-in-a-row
and it's not gonna be three
and it's not gonna be four
it's more likely to be 5-1.
All because of the media reporting of it. There are about 10 posts on this thread alone containing unsubstanstiated claims. Even Bertie is taking through his arsé on this - without knowing the facts.
The HR boss of IR is not an honest broker on this FFS and he's had a free run of every radio show I've heard in the last few days.
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
I think it is always very hard to comment on industrial relations as journalists by their very nature are always pro busines and anti union as they are writing for big corporations. I think lots of us probably know of cases in our own job that the real story was not told by the media. I would not comment on an industrial action and judge another worker on the basis of whats reported on the media. The media are biased against unions and workers that strike as they fell the general public will support them most people are annoyed by the disturbance to their lives so they will blame the workers that striked. In some cases this is a valid argument and sometimes it is a very simplistic argument. The trick is finding out which is ones are valid and which ones are simplistic.
In Trap we trust
Can you provide a link to that because the Irish Times says that:Also, if safety is the sole issue why is it thatSiptu and the National Bus and Rail Union sought a pay increase of 5 per cent for drivers, and a reduction in working hours, in return for the introduction of the new trains as well as other work changes.
...
NBRU general secretary Liam Tobin said last night that there was "a perception" among the drivers that all of the issues would have been agreed before the new trains were introduced.If safety was the sole concern there should have only been 2 trains affected.All other Cork-based drivers stopped work in support of their two colleagues, as did all drivers based at Inchicore in Dublin. Half of those based in Limerick also joined the action.
I heard it on the radio Bald Student. And again, I'm not saying I believe it, I'm simply reiterating that there's a lot of commentary out there and very few hard facts. According to the guy on the radio, pay is a separate issue, they refused to drive the trains solely because of the safety issue. Presumably the other guys decided to strike in "solidarity". Or because they fancied a day off, I honestly don't know. I'm pretty sure they'd say solidarity though.
Since you all seem to be jumping to conclusions despite my attempts to sit as close to the middle of the road as I can, I'll say it straight out: I don't know who's to be believed. My point is that you shouldn't either, since there simply isn't enough hard factual evience out there for you to make honest judgements -- everything we've heard so far is biased commentary. Saying "unions are crap" or "IR are crap" based off this incident is just jumping to conclusions that suit your preconceptions.
(You above is collective.)
I agree with you Adam that there's a lack of information and some of the information from both sides is contradictory but there's nothing wrong with forming an opinion on what facts are available. The clincher for me in this regard is the quote:Why are so many people being put out by a perception? Is that perception correct or incorrect? I'm assuming that it's incorrect since the union man wouldn't have used the word perception if it was something stronger than that. If there was an agreement or a commitment he would have said "... based on the agreement / commitment that ...". I'm also very skepticel of the claim that Irish Rail are forcing them to drive trains in an unsafe manner. What motivation would the management have to do this?NBRU general secretary Liam Tobin said last night that there was "a perception" among the drivers that all of the issues would have been agreed before the new trains were introduced.
It's possible that when more facts emerge it'll turn out that I'm wrong but based on the facts that are there it seems to me that the drivers story had huge holes in it.
I'm afraid that quote doesn't do anything for me tbh Bald Student. Just another line in a news story that could be read several different ways.
If the train drivers union thought this issue was a reasonable one they would ave back - fact is they are refusing to back the issue.
Nobody will take "workers" (i use the term loosely) seriously when they walk out on their job with no notice to deliberately inconvenience other people in the full knowledge that they work for a public company & will alwasy have their jobs whatever happens. If they worked for a private transport company it would probably go under due to p!ss off passenger & they would lose their jobs.
Bertie is the Taoiseach he is the ultimate boss of both Irish Rail Management & their drivers so it is also his ultimate responsibilty.
The Ireland of 2006 doesn't support strikes like this as in the past. Not much sympathy for freeloaders.
10 Days holidays a year is also the American way... they can take a hike!max power, the reason you have a decent standard of living is because of trade unions. If you don't believe read about the 1913 Lockout when the owner of the Irish Independent ( at the time) William Martin Murphy was the leader of the Employers grouping and Jim Larkin was the leader of the Union employees.
I don't agree with unofficial strikes or wildcat actions for the record! The Ghost of ILDA and odious Mr. Ogle looms large
If I may jump to Max Power's defence, he was quoting a famous philosopher, they're not his own words.10 Days holidays a year is also the American way... they can take a hike!
no the reason i have a decent standard of living is because i have my own business and work hard, i am not a member of a trade union and i have my own client whom i engage with on a personal level.10 Days holidays a year is also the American way... they can take a hike!
i am in a job with a trade union as well and am not a member, the pay is rubbish and i am leaving to start a second business so unions have done nothing for me, i've done it myself.
Ignore Max Power, he is no more, the future is Ron Burgundy. I'd love to be Ron Burgundy but they won't let me........
Much as I'd like to debate the Trade Union issue can we stay on topic as plenty of threads of the eveil of trade unions...
The question remains - if these drivers were given a 10k payoff they'd be off driving new trains immeadiately. Safety is just a diversion because the public don't have the knowledge to contradict.
How do you know that pete?
I've been told pretty much the same thing from some non-driving staff
I know there.
Despite there being a Union, the drivers themselves stick together in
a kinda unofficial sub union so they can have the best of both worlds.
If the union dosent back them they back themselves.
Larry Be Wyse
www.acsportsimages.com
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