Champions League Final

**geysir** · 19/05/2006, 11:46 AM

In one of Collina's last games in Italy, he was fooled by some three obvious fresh air contacts, followed by blatant leaps in the air and the icing on the cake roll overs. But if it's Collina who misses them then its the player's deception comes into question.

**Karlos** · 19/05/2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

The ref had a stinker in my view and he was not up to handling the game. However I think if you lose a game you are better off not even mentioning the ref or his performance. .

I don't think any referee deserves to get away with that type of performance. People are quick to attack players when they don't perform and Henry has every right to have a go at him. I would be disgusted for any player to not show the type of passion that Henry does especially when it's very much justified.

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Also Arsenal FC have given out about the First goal and said it was offside. This despite the fact you saw on Sky on Wed night it was onside and doubt should always favour the attacking. Paul Merson and Guillit and Redknapp all said it was onside.

I didn't see anything on Sky. You do fail to mention that Wenger questioned the offside amongst a 5 minute chat where the focus was praising Barcelona & his own players very highly as you had wished. It's a tiny aspect of what was a very sporting interview.

For my money and some others, Eto'o is offside when Larrson touches the ball. It happened so quickly so I don't blame the linesman. I don't watch Sky here in Canada but I've watched the incident on video numerouss times and I'm still of the opinion he's offside but only at Larssons touch. Sometimes you get those, sometimes you don't but you've every right to feel agreived by it.

Of course during the game the advantage should be given to the attackers but if he's offside, he is offside and if it was Ireland we would all feel hard done by that.

**Dodge** · 19/05/2006, 11:56 AM

No, its been proved Eto'o was onside. Marginally but he was.

**Karlos** · 19/05/2006, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

No, its been proved Eto'o was onside. Marginally but he was.

Well I haven't seen anything to prove it onside and I assume 3 minutes after the game neither had Wenger even after watching the footage he was presented.

He's adamant that the tv footage he was shown in Paris showed it differently and I have to say what I have seen concurs with that view albeit very marginal and easily missed in my opinion

Till I see whatever proves it otherwise, I stick by what I've watched on video numerous times although of course I could be wrong.

**Dodge** · 19/05/2006, 12:05 PM

You are

Don't blame Wenger for questioning after the game BTW

**Marked Man** · 19/05/2006, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

I'll rephrase then - no one at Arsenal FC is blaming the referee for the sending off. Doesn't stop people making ridicuolous claims about Arsenal being sore losers.

The comments Henry made on the overall performance of the referee were absolutely spot on. .

If someone says that the Ref should have been wearing a Barcelona shirt after he makes one decision that cost Barcelona a goal and made another that gifted Arsenal a goal, how can anyone think anything else other than that he's a sore loser?
If the ref was inept (which I don't think he was), he was inept for both teams.

And the fact that he's now second guessing a decision which even you say he got right doesn't show anything about his performance; it shows only that he's feeling the pressure now with everyone claiming he should have ignored the rules and let the keeper stay on.

**Karlos** · 19/05/2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Marked Man

If someone says that the Ref should have been wearing a Barcelona shirt after he makes one decision that cost Barcelona a goal and made another that gifted Arsenal a goal, how can anyone think anything else other than that he's a sore loser?
.

You obviously haven't listened to the interview. He accused the referee of wearring a barca shirt in relation to the treatment he recieved. You like so many others have totally taken his comments out of context.

He said himself that the ref was right on the sending off and didn't cost Arsenal the game but complained soley on the standard of the refereeing with regard to himself. He was spot on and I'm still waiting for someone to prove that differently.

Watch the interview again as you do Henry a terrible but not surprising in-justice.

**Dodge** · 19/05/2006, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

complained soley on the standard of the refereeing with regard to himself. He was spot on and I'm still waiting for someone to prove that differently.

Do you honestly believe that Campbell and Toure weren't going in just as hard on Eto and Ronaldinho. I can think of one foul on Henry (mis-timed tackle by Marquez) but he certainly wasn't kicked up and down the park. He was just marked tightly by quality defenders.

**ColinR** · 19/05/2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

You obviously haven't listened to the interview. He accused the referee of wearring a barca shirt in relation to the treatment he recieved. You like so many others have totally taken his comments out of context.

have you seen the itv interview - the context of that one was most definately sour grapes and accusing the ref of costing arsenal the match. in this case he is definately in te wrong, understandable considering it was minutes after losing such a big match, but he should have the grace at his press conference today to take back his comments.

**pineapple stu** · 19/05/2006, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

The laws state that that type of challenge is a red card - you can't do it.

I think a straight red for a tackle from behind was rescinded straight after the 1998 World Cup, when there were red cards everywhere. I don't recall any Barca challenge worthy of a straight red.

**geysir** · 19/05/2006, 1:05 PM

So now we know that the ref. made a brilliant on the spot decision that the first "Larsson goal" was onside. One of the most crucial/brave/ expert refereeing decisions since..... Frick gave us that last minute penalty.

IMO there is some method to Wenger's moaning about the refereeing standard. Moan enough with false allegations like Mourinho did against Frick last year and Uefa will give the referee you want next time as Chelsea got then with Merk being appointed in the return game.
Am I giving Arsene more credit than he deserves?

**Dodge** · 19/05/2006, 1:18 PM

Worked for Chelsea this year in the Cl didn't it? Don't think they complained about refs this year at all

**geysir** · 19/05/2006, 1:37 PM

I really do feel reluctant to bring into question Arsenal's renowned sense of fair play, their pedigree in this area has set high standards but was there any particular good reason why the ball was not returned to Barca after it was put out of play when Henry was injured?

**NeilMcD** · 19/05/2006, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

I don't think any referee deserves to get away with that type of performance. People are quick to attack players when they don't perform and Henry has every right to have a go at him. I would be disgusted for any player to not show the type of passion that Henry does especially when it's very much justified.

I didn't see anything on Sky. You do fail to mention that Wenger questioned the offside amongst a 5 minute chat where the focus was praising Barcelona & his own players very highly as you had wished. It's a tiny aspect of what was a very sporting interview.

For my money and some others, Eto'o is offside when Larrson touches the ball. It happened so quickly so I don't blame the linesman. I don't watch Sky here in Canada but I've watched the incident on video numerouss times and I'm still of the opinion he's offside but only at Larssons touch. Sometimes you get those, sometimes you don't but you've every right to feel agreived by it.

Of course during the game the advantage should be given to the attackers but if he's offside, he is offside and if it was Ireland we would all feel hard done by that.

My view is you are better off as a manager or a player congratulating the other team and complimenting your own team and then getting on with it. Bringingup the issues in relation to the ref comes across as sour grapes. You can analyse what he said many times but he did say the Ref should be wearing a Barca shirt. If that is not an inflamotory remark about a ref I dont know what is. He also made inflamatory remarks about ETO and Roanaldinhio also saying they were not proper players or proper people.

Granted that Wenger and Henry congratulated Barca and complimented them also but this is the least I would expect from any club or person.

If ireland went out to the ETO goal I would not feel one bit annoyed by the ref or linesman as the goal was onside. When you get Paul Merson saying it was onside and Liam Brady then you know its onside. Merson was like Phil Thompson in a lot of his comments the other nigth but he was fair on that one.

In my view players coming out and having a go at a ref after a game no matter who they are if they are Robbie Keane, Steve Staunton Henry , Shearer I dont care it does not sound good especially after you have just been beaten in a final.

**Stuttgart88** · 19/05/2006, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

In one of Collina's last games in Italy, he was fooled by some three obvious fresh air contacts, followed by blatant leaps in the air and the icing on the cake roll overs. But if it's Collina who misses them then its the player's deception comes into question.

The same referee who distorted the outcome of Euro 2004 by refusing to book 3 or 4 Greek players against Czech Rep in the SF because he knew they were carrying yellow cards. He wasn't there to be a humanitarian!

**Stuttgart88** · 19/05/2006, 2:56 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

If ireland went out to the ETO goal I would not feel one bit annoyed by the ref or linesman as the goal was onside.

Robbie Keane could have had a hat-trick in Basle in Oct '04 except for a series of marginal but definitely wrong offside calls . eirebhoy even posted the stills on this site as evidence. But it was hard to complain too much as 99 times out of a hundred those offsides are given. Deep down Arsenal can feel unlucky that the linesman made such a good & courageous call but they can't feel aggrieved.

Anyway, I'm hoping Arsenal can do a Bayern Munich.

Wednesday's game just goes to show how precarious the divide between success & failure is as a goalie. Or rather how absolute success & failure is in that position: Lehman's save from Riquelme vs his foul on Eto. Reyna's performance in 90 minutes against West Ham vs being the hero of the day 40 mins later...

**Marked Man** · 19/05/2006, 3:36 PM

Originally Posted by KarlosIRL

You obviously haven't listened to the interview. He accused the referee of wearring a barca shirt in relation to the treatment he recieved. You like so many others have totally taken his comments out of context.

He said himself that the ref was right on the sending off and didn't cost Arsenal the game but complained soley on the standard of the refereeing with regard to himself. He was spot on and I'm still waiting for someone to prove that differently.

Watch the interview again as you do Henry a terrible but not surprising in-justice.

Henry, as quoted in several sources:

'I don't know if the referee was wearing a Barcelona shirt because they kicked me all over the place. If the referee did not want us to win he should have said so from the off.

'Some of the calls were strange. I believe the referee did not do his job. I would have liked to have seen a proper referee.'

He added: 'Maybe next time I'll learn how to dive. I expect the referee to do his job but I don't think he did.'

No sour grapes there, right? A terrible injustice I've done him indeed (to use your overblown terminology).

**Karlos** · 19/05/2006, 6:12 PM

I wanted to post this up just to say that I've reached a point of no return on this and am really growing bored of defending the many half truths, twisted quotes and gutter press 'facts' thrown out at almost everything I post in relation to Arsenal.

I do wonder why I even bother posting when I know what the responce will be and who will say it. I used to think I contributed something here when it comes to Arsenal but I really question that now. Really just getting tired of it all to be honest. It's a pity because I honestly feel that there are some really good knowledgeable football people here who get lost in the rubbish. I've just had enough of all the double standards & well hidden personal insults to be honest. I'm tired of constantly having to repeat myself. I've just wasted too much energy here in fairness and am not going to leave myself open for a keegan-esque outburst in the future.

So I'm done when it comes to Arsenal on foot.ie . I like to compare it to Highbury closing it's doors. No doubt there is an Emirates out there, shiny & new, to pick up the Arsenal baton on foot.ie

Cheers

**geysir** · 20/05/2006, 5:15 PM

Just when I was thinking to become an Arsenal supporter next season because Emirates is by far my favorite airline.
Karlos, you don't have to feel that you have to defend the context of Arsenal's every action and word, just let some of the stuff go, besides being hard work
I wake up this morning to hear an interview with the Gunner golfer Ian Poulter, all the time was spent on a long rant about that CL referee.
Reacting tactically and emotionally to bad decisions made in the game are also part of the game.
This afternoon Munster were subject to an absolute howler of a decision in the Rugby cup final. After the game it was not mentioned. I wonder why