Champions League Final

**pete** · 18/05/2006, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Yeah it happens on most TVs. The digital signal is about 5 seconds slower than the normal signal.

Thats correct. RTE are also incapable of matching the sound with the pictures so the commentary is maybe 1-2 seconds ahead of the pictures. Really p!sses me off at times. BTW they transmitted differently from the source.

**NeilMcD** · 18/05/2006, 1:42 PM

Pete the commentary delay is different to the delay that I am talking about.

The digital signal whether it be RTE or Sky that you are watching is about 5 seconds behind the normal signal on your TV through the aerial or through piped TV. So if I watch RTE through my tv and swtich to RTE on the Digital there will be about a 5 second difference. In addition to that RTE also have their commentary out of sync .

**Donegalcelt** · 18/05/2006, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

On the punditry last night, the bar I was in (Fitzsimon's in Temple Bar) had Sky Sports on and all Andy Gray kept harping on (and on, and on, and..) for the entire first half was how "the referee has ruined this as a spectacle by not allowing the goal". Not mentioning any of the play, or how the game was progressing. Oh, and for those who watched the build up on Sky Sports, there were 20 other players involved in the game, not just Ronaldinho and Henry

Cannot agree more. I think the first time they mentioned Eto'o, Cesc or whoever was when the game started. Andy Gray always takes the opposite opinion to the awarded decision. He moaned about not allowing the goal and sending Lehmann off. Let's face it, if you want to stop someone scoring a goal then you drag them down and face the consequences. That's what happened. I know that it's very difficult for a 'keeper to stop after committing themselves and maybe that is worth looking into. But as well as catching Eto'o, Lehman clearer hooked his ankle to make doubley sure

**Donegalcelt** · 18/05/2006, 2:06 PM

Also interesting. Jens Lehmann didn't concede a goal in the Champions League all season. Didn't play v Ajax or Thun. Still, not much consolation. Found it hard to believe that he's also the first ever sending off in the final

**wws** · 18/05/2006, 2:17 PM

speed of light and sound eh?!?!

they haven't invented a way to beam 'live' coverage into peoples living rooms as of yet

you'll always get delays of varying amounts

try go to fraziers on champions league night - every second telly is beaming back at a different time! causes chaos!

**razor** · 18/05/2006, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by Roadend

I'm afraid not, Its quite clear in the replay that Lehman grabbed his foot after missing the ball. Eto'o was away had he not done that.

I doubt very much if Eto'o would have stayed on his feet even if Lehmann did not grab his foot.

**Risteard** · 18/05/2006, 2:31 PM

Are you saying you don't think it was a red card offence?

**Stuttgart88** · 18/05/2006, 2:43 PM

I've seen it a few times replayed on Sky News in last few minutes and I think Lehmann paid the price for a poor starting position. Couldn't see it properly - my desk TV is only about 3 inches by 2 inches!

If he was further back Eto would have had far more work to do to beat him. Against that though, Eto is very quick. Lehmann was quick out and would have beaten slower players to the ball. The Arsenal back four must take a share of the blame too as they were picked open very easily (OK, brilliantly) by being so square. I heard it said last night that Cole was the one who played him on but have yet to see it properly since.

I still think it was initially just a misjudgment and a red card is hard to argue with.

**Dodge** · 18/05/2006, 2:55 PM

It was definitely Cole who kept him onside (by about 4/5 yards)

**Roadend** · 18/05/2006, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by razor

I doubt very much if Eto'o would have stayed on his feet even if Lehmann did not grab his foot.

You're right, I couldn't see him wanting to score a goal in the CL final, which he would clearly have done had Lehman not caught his ankle.

**dfx-** · 18/05/2006, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by razor

I doubt very much if Eto'o would have stayed on his feet even if Lehmann did not grab his foot.

Whether Eto'o would've dived or not is irrelevant and extremely speculative. Lehmann caught him. He deserved to go. Simple.

Whether people are arguing over and over about whether advantage should've been played, again is extremely speculative. A cyclical argument over and over again.

Lehmann committed a red card offence. Eto'o was in control of the ball, running towards goal, no defensive cover. Whether Giuly put the ball in or not, Lehmann still should've been sent off.

For those like ITV who think their lovely game was spoiled, tough. You can't avoid sending players off for red card offences just so as people can enjoy a nice game. How about if Lehmann punched Eto'o, but Giuly scored? Was it just because he *only* caught his foot that makes it ok to show just a yellow?

I wonder if anyone saw the Eboue 'tackle' on Van Bronckhorst in the first half which he only got booked for? He must have caught the Essien disease.

**Stuttgart88** · 18/05/2006, 3:37 PM

The referee has just been interviewed on TV and very magnanimously said that in hindsight he'd preferred to have waited - he'd have awarded the goal & booked Lehmann.

Again, I have to draw comparison to the Petr Cech foul in last year's semi final at Anfield. His was actually a high, dangerous challenge but in my opinion a yellow card and the concession of a goal was punishment enough. I think the game's gone red card mad these days. It used to be a shameful event, now red cards are two to a penny.

I think the ref was wrong to book Henry, but the Barcelona player made it look like a foul with the way he fell and it's hard to fault the ref in those circumstances. I though the ref was very honest & courageous facing the cameras. God help any referee that gives a big decision against an English team these days. I do think he could have protected Henry better but that's about my only criticism of him.

**drinkfeckarse** · 18/05/2006, 3:58 PM

Jeez I'm bored of this already.....

He got sent off, we've all got our opinions of it. Now what's the odds on Barca winning again next year?

**geysir** · 18/05/2006, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Jeez I'm bored of this already.....

He got sent off, we've all got our opinions of it. Now what's the odds on Barca winning again next year?

You can get 9/4 on the CL winner being a Spanish club.

**John83** · 18/05/2006, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by wws

speed of light and sound eh?!?!

It has very little to do with that. It's not like RTE have a gigantic loudspeaker in Paris, broadcasting directly.

**Karlos** · 18/05/2006, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Junior

- With regards Henrys comments on the Ref. I think Karlos said they where bang on the nail. "The ref should have been wearing a Barcelona shirt"?? Really? I have to disagree, the ref had an average game. Lehmanns indiscipline, Henrys poor finishing were well above the ref in terms of who should take the blame for Arsenals defeat- if anything the ref gave them a helping hand on the key decisions.

I haven't checked back but I think I said said his comments on the performance of Eto'o and Ronaldinho were spot on. I do agree however with Henry's comments on the referee's actual performance (maybe not the manner he said them though). poor poor quality for a major final. Helping hand or not on some issues, the ref got so many things wrong that would have changed the game. The sending off was about the only thing he got right and had the game finished 1-0 to Arsenal, I'm sure there would be plently here saying he actually got that wrong too

**Closed Account 2** · 18/05/2006, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Now what's the odds on Barca winning again next year?

Can't see it happening. Larsson (a very underrated player who is off this summer) got them out of jail last night. His brilliant passes were the only thing that un-did Arsenal. Without him Barca looked ordinary and Arsenal, packing the midfield, had many chances on the break. Despite having a man advantage, and probably man for man a better team than Arsenal they were outplayed for much of the game by a team who got it tactically very right.

Barca are far from invincable, Atletico totally outfoxed them twice this season.

And when I was in the Da Luz on the 28th March, I saw Benfica give them a lashing too (indeed it was only the denial of a clear handball that saw Benfica escape with a draw).

They are a good side, but a decent manager, with a fairly good squad, can come up with a plan to smother them.

**Karlos** · 18/05/2006, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

If Shay Given had of done it I would have been very angry with him and I would have blamed him for the incident rather than blame the ref. It seems that players blame refs rather than fellow players. Thats why the comparison with Roy Keane earlier was not accurate as i think rightly or wrongly Keane blames his own players and himself for mistakes made in games rather than the referees. This is after the game I must say, there is nobody better at "talking" to the ref during a game than keane.

But Neil, nobody including the Arsenal players are blaming the ref for the sending off. I don't how many times I have to say it, but he got it right.

It's the 101 other incidents that shaped the game that is the issue. The constant refusal to book and to send off, if he was to interpret the laws as he did with the Lehmann incident, did shape the game. A tackle from behind under the current laws is a red card. I don't agree with it but it's there in black & white for anyone to see.

**Karlos** · 18/05/2006, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Oh by the way Arsenal now have the lovely record of losing in all 3 European Finals, Champions Cup, Cup Winnners Cup and Uefa Cup.
.

Spoken like a true Spurs fan.....opps wait, you jumped off that ship a week ago after Wenger poisioned them (or so the conspiracy goes!!) (i'm joking, no need for a a factual retort!)

Of course these are the type of facts that keep the intelligent contributors on spursweb occupied when all they can remember about the last major final they were in was that they lost to Blackburn Rovers and it was in February (you know, february, when all the MAJOR finals are played!)

**Risteard** · 19/05/2006, 1:03 AM

I think Barca will be a force over the next five years, maybe winning another one or even two big ears in that time.
Messi is a long way from reaching fruition and Ronaldinho, Xavi and Eto'o will hit their prime over the next few years. That's 4 World Class players, they've a good manager imo and if they can keep a good quality around those 4, they could be a real team to remember.