Older Players Returning to the Eircom League

**Soper** · 12/05/2006, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by livehead1

o for god sake will you ever get off your EL loving high chair. you miss the point completely. Its simply not up for debate. The coaching standards in Britain and the training facilities are much better.

What's loving the Eircom League got to do with stating a fact about Irish schoolboy sides?Completely different area.

**Noelys Guitar** · 12/05/2006, 12:20 PM

John Giles returning to take over Rovers in the 70's seemed at the time like a big turning point for the then LOI. With the other WBROM Irish crew and Dunphy, Irvine, Lynex and a some very good younger players it all looked bright for the hoops and the league. Too many players past their best could not win the league with only the cup won the first season. The Giles genuine "experiment" soon fizzled out. What the EL needs is players at their prime coming into the league from anywhere abroad to mix with the best that are aleady here. That will take large sums of money. Why investors are running off to Sunderland and not to Rovers ( or any number of EL teams) is beyond me. Things can be turned around very quickly. If the Brazilians playing for Sevilla had been playing for Shels who is to say Shelbourne wouldn't have gotten to the group stages of the CL? Far-fetched? Not if the money is made available. Will the right players come to the EL? Ruckin-right they will if the dough is there.

**pineapple stu** · 12/05/2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by livehead1

It's simply not up for debate. The coaching standards in Britain and the training facilities are much better.

Just to add my two cents very briefly on that post - UCD's training facilities aren't far off Premiership standard, according to a player who's played for us and with a Premiership club. Football coaching may be better in England - although with UEFA badges now, the standard should be evening out a bit - but life coaching is much better in Ireland than in England. It's all well and good if a club can make you a better player, but if they ignore you or treat you badly, as happens all too often in England, you won't make it.

**Shelsman** · 12/05/2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Just to add my two cents very briefly on that post - UCD's training facilities aren't far off Premiership standard, according to a player who's played for us and with a Premiership club.

An he is employed by the club as their PRO -right? Sounds like he's doing his job alright!

**pineapple stu** · 12/05/2006, 1:03 PM

Nope, he's employed by Derry City now...

Just said I'd bring factual context to a speculative post.

(Think about the fact that we have a full gym, astro pitches, training pitches, etc, etc... all to hand)

**LeixlipRed** · 12/05/2006, 1:29 PM

but what about the actual training methods, the workouts themselves? anyone ive ever talked to who has experience of clubs both here and Ireland would tell you that the actual training itself is better in England. UCDs facilities might come close but do the coaches and specialists have that knowledge of tactics and training methods needed at the very top?

**pineapple stu** · 12/05/2006, 3:32 PM

I covered that in my previous post. I didn't intend to say they were, just to rebuke the point on the facilities and the player treatment.

**Paddy Garcia** · 12/05/2006, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

I do not believe that the interests of players like Colin Larkin or JJ Melligan (to name but two) have been better served by kicking around the English lower leagues with the likes of Mansfield or Chesterfield (Larkin), Kidderminster or Cheltenham (Melligan) than they would have been by staying at home and playing for Cork, Drogs or whoever. They certainly won't have been training with Ronaldo at Aggborough or Saltergate!

PP

You have a point, though I have to say that it did no harm to Kinsella and Finnan.

**Slash/ED** · 12/05/2006, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

You have a point, though I have to say that it did no harm to Kinsella and Finnan.

Equally the reverse didn't harm Kevin Doyle or even McGrath and others.

**Paddy Garcia** · 12/05/2006, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Equally the reverse didn't harm Kevin Doyle or even McGrath and others.

Did Doyle & McGrath go over, come back & then go over again ? I did not think they did?

**pete** · 12/05/2006, 6:30 PM

Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Did Doyle & McGrath go over, come back & then go over again ? I did not think they did?

Doyle never played in the UK before the eL. In fact I think he was the first U21 international never to have played abroad.

Doyle should be the poster boy for advertising the eL as hes a football household name already, probabky not known by non-football types though.

**John83** · 12/05/2006, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Doyle never played in the UK before the eL. In fact I think he was the first U21 international never to have played abroad.

I'm a bit dubious about that. I'm sure some of UCD's former U21s would have beaten him to it. Maybe not in a competitive game though, but there are probably some other examples from around the league. Can any statos out there confirm?

**pineapple stu** · 12/05/2006, 6:51 PM

Definitely. Clive Delaney, Ciaran Martyn, Jason Sherlock, Mick O'Byrne... All would have joined UCD at about 17 from schoolboy clubs.

**gustavo** · 12/05/2006, 7:25 PM

Conor O Grady too for Sligo Rovers was capped whilst playing for us.

**Roverstillidie** · 12/05/2006, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by livehead1

o for god sake will you ever get off your EL loving high chair. you miss the point completely. Its simply not up for debate. The coaching standards in Britain and the training facilities are much better.

when did i mention the el?

the reality is up to 14/15 we are quite literally as good as the italians at producing talent. then what happens to the best and most ambitious? they are farmed overseas to sink or swim, at which point their personality type and ability to cope alone becomes the dominant reason for success or failure in britain. not ablility, not fitness. not will to win.

name me one other country that allows this to happen? seriously

why do the FAI block EL clubs set up academies to harness the talent? because the likes of devlin who personally profit from this situation are in charge. its a farce. why not send them overseas at 19, not 12? why the hell dont the FAIlure prohibit under 18's from leaving. or do what the norwegans do, you have to be domestically based to play for norway up to and including u21.

pros training in the el train at the exact same level and pace as similar caliber teams in britian.

livehead, less of the white mans burden please.

**Forever Dreamin** · 12/05/2006, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

nonsense, we produce the best schoolboy sides in europe.

and besides, how many other countries with similar standard leagues/underage set ups let their players go for free to another country?

So what are you proposing - that no irish kid can leave the country if the're a good footballing prospect?? Get real The FAI have no control over this whatsoever. HAve you heard of freedom of speech / right to travel etc, etc.

Ask 100 people if they had a son who had a chance of making it in Britain or Europe would they let their son go? How many will say yes?? Thats the problem... it's the public perception and there's very little the FAI or EL can do to change that until some club makes it thru to the QF of the Champions League or somewhere close to that level

**gustavo** · 13/05/2006, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Forever Dreamin

So what are you proposing - that no irish kid can leave the country if the're a good footballing prospect?? Get real The FAI have no control over this whatsoever. HAve you heard of freedom of speech / right to travel etc, etc.

Ask 100 people if they had a son who had a chance of making it in Britain or Europe would they let their son go? How many will say yes?? Thats the problem... it's the public perception and there's very little the FAI or EL can do to change that until some club makes it thru to the QF of the Champions League or somewhere close to that level

I dont think thats what he is proposing but it is ludacious that lot of the schoolboy teams are mere breeding grounds for British clubs , There should be a viable ALTERNATIVE for those schoolboys that dont go over . Oh and i know its pedantic but last time i checked us and Britain were already in Europe

**Paddy Garcia** · 13/05/2006, 8:47 AM

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

why the hell dont the FAIlure prohibit under 18's from leaving. or do what the norwegans do, you have to be domestically based to play for norway up to and including u21.

...after 5 years they would then qualify to play for England.

**Paddy Garcia** · 13/05/2006, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Equally the reverse didn't harm Kevin Doyle or even McGrath and others.

..that particluar point was about the merits of players dropping down divisions in England, not delaying a move abroad.

**Forever Dreamin** · 13/05/2006, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by gustavo

I dont think thats what he is proposing but it is ludacious that lot of the schoolboy teams are mere breeding grounds for British clubs , There should be a viable ALTERNATIVE for those schoolboys that dont go over . Oh and i know its pedantic but last time i checked us and Britain were already in Europe

I agree that there should be a viable alternative and I believe there is in that the UCD scolarship scheme is one such, its convincing the parents of the kids otherwise and you right we are in europe!!