Ireland v Chile, 24/05/06

**cheifo** · 22/05/2006, 5:44 PM

I take your point EB but he has not exactly set the world alight in an Ireland jersey so far but yes he seems to have a great attitude and we dont have many other options.I think I would still go for same midfield that played against Sweden.

**eirebhoy** · 22/05/2006, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by cheifo

I take your point EB but he has not exactly set the world alight in an Ireland jersey so far but yes he seems to have a great attitude and we dont have many other options.I think I would still go for same midfield that played against Sweden.

Do you really see John O'Shea setting the world alight any time soon?

If O'Shea gets through a game doing the basics and not making a mistake it's a great game for him. At the moment Kavanagh is a couple of levels above O'Shea when it comes to playing the holding role.

I just don't see the point in playing O'Shea ahead of Kavanagh. Kavanagh can do everything O'Shea can except he does it better.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/05/2006, 9:35 AM

Emmet Malone summarised Kavanagh's abilities well in a recent "state of the union" type article in the Irish Times. Rougly speakling he said he was a very accomplished footballer but he struggled to turn the tide in each of Wigan's games against the top 4 or 5 sides this season, suggesting he's up to it at a certain level (probably mid-Premiership) but no higher.

I must admit I'm in two minds about him now, having previously been a strong advocate. I think he should have played against Switzerland but that said, despite an excellent start in Cyprus where he dictated everything, he was simply swamped for the last 80 minutes. Maybe having Steven Reid's mobility to complement his composed use of the ball would help though. Kavanagh is a far better user of the ball than O'Shea and like any natural central midfielder is always aware of his options and protects the ball well. Taking and giving simple passes is a very under-appreciated ability, especially if those passes ultimately "add value" by releasing players in good positions.

I think we're going to have to arrive at our optimal central midfield combo by iteration DURING the next campaign. Two more friendlies may not be enough.

Question: can Liam Lawrence also play centrally?

**drummerboy** · 23/05/2006, 11:08 AM

Never really thought Kavanagh was more than a decent championship player. He is too slow and not mobile enough for international football.

**eirebhoy** · 23/05/2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by drummerboy

Never really thought Kavanagh was more than a decent championship player. He is too slow and not mobile enough for international football.

I don't agree with that at all. It depends what role he plays. Sometimes he can be a real workhorse, other times he could be sitting there doing a Neil Lennon type job.

Against Leeds he was up and down the pitch all day and played 120 minutes. If Wigan had the ball he'd regularly be up there along with the strikers, if Leeds had the ball he was regularly the furthest player back harassing them.

Stuttgart's point is very valid but maybe he's just told to sit tight against the likes of Arsenal. He actually played very well against Arsenal in the Carling cup match. Here's a clip I had a while:
http://media.putfile.com/kav-cross

It shows how much of a leader and how much he's looked up to even without the captains armband. We need that type of leadership and if it's a choice between him and O'Shea, it isn't really a choice imo.

He definitely does play better against the weaker teams. Against China he was like a man in with a bunch of kids.

**Ash** · 23/05/2006, 11:51 AM

Morrison and Lee out injured accordung to eleven-a-side.com

from www.fai.ie

Senior International Manager, Stephen Staunton has announced the
Republic of Ireland team to face Chile at Lansdowne Road tomorrow,
Kick-off 7.30 pm.

Republic of Ireland Team
Shay Given (Newcastle United)
Stephen Kelly (Tottenham Hotspur)
Gary Breen (Unatttached)
Richard Dunne (Manchester City)
Kevin Kilbane (Everton)
Steve Finnan (Liverpool)
John O’Shea (Manchester United)
Steven Reid (Blackburn Rovers)
Robbie Keane (Tottenham Hotspur)
Damien Duff (Chelsea)
Kevin Doyle (Reading)

**fergalr** · 23/05/2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ash

Gary Breen (Unatttached)

and the point of giving him another cap is ..... ?

**bawn79** · 23/05/2006, 12:26 PM

Why play Finnan right midfield, if he plays there in a qualifier we havent go a hope
O'Shea centre mid, kavangh is the better player
and Gary Breen, career for ireland is over.
pointless....
Should be Lawrence or McGeady right side
Kavanagh, centre
Called a younger central defender in.

**Ash** · 23/05/2006, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by fergalr

and the point of giving him another cap is ..... ?

Putting him in the shop window for another club to have a look

**tetsujin1979** · 23/05/2006, 12:33 PM

Breen must be setting some kind of record for appearances at senior level while not at a club? 4 games at the World Cup and now another?

**Drogman.** · 23/05/2006, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by fergalr

and the point of giving him another cap is ..... ?

What a joke. If there was ever a case that Ireland are still going nowhere at international level then seeing Gary Breen play for any team is just that.

Joke of player for a joke of a team.

BaZmO* · 23/05/2006, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by totalfootball

Will Finnan be playing on the right-hand side of midfield again, even though he clearly said he didn't like playing there? If so, this is a very strange decision. I would personally have played McGeady.

Well the team that Stan has picked would suggest that he won't be.

Originally Posted by eirbhoy

I just don't see the point in playing O'Shea ahead of Kavanagh

Probably something to do with the fact that Kav is 33 and JOSH is only 25.

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Taking and giving simple passes is a very under-appreciated ability

Only by those who don't have a clue about football tbh!

**geysir** · 23/05/2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think we're going to have to arrive at our optimal central midfield combo by iteration DURING the next campaign. Two more friendlies may not be enough.

Not sure what you mean there ....further experimentation may be required during the group games ?
I know it's early days but I get the sense that Stan has made more than provisional decision about O'Shea over Kavanagh.
Kilbane at LB ? he better not let you down.

**Paulie** · 23/05/2006, 1:08 PM

Does anyone know who the subs are?

**Stuttgart88** · 23/05/2006, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Not sure what you mean there ....further experimentation may be required during the group games ?
I know it's early days but I get the sense that Stan has made more than provisional decision about O'Shea over Kavanagh.
Kilbane at LB ? he better not let you down.

That's exactly what I meant, trial & error basically. If O'Shea impresses in next 2 games the job is his for a further few games. I think this is very much what Stan is thinking, as you say. But if O'Shea slips up in next 2 games Stan may be forced to chnage his mind.

Surprised to see Finnan RHM. I see the point in trying Kelly but equally I'd like to see Lawrence, McGeady or Andy Reid tried first. Maybe Stan will give Finnan a different role than Kerr though. I've said this before, but at Fulham I saw Finnan give Ashley Cole a torrid time from RHM & I think he made his Ireland debt there at home to Finland, scoring in a 3-0 win. Maybe he's there to cover a bit for Kelly, easing him into his debut?

**colster** · 23/05/2006, 1:13 PM

Folks, looks like we're playing 433/451 formation. e.g.

Given

Finnan Breen Dunne Kelly

Reid O'Shea Kilbane

Doyle Keane Duff

just like we played against Sweden.

**TheJamaicanP.M.** · 23/05/2006, 1:23 PM

Looking at that team, its becoming obvious what team Stan would prefer to put out if everyone was fit. For instance, I reckon he's playing Steve Finnan on the right side of midfield because Steve Carr will be right-back for the qualifiers. We might not like Carr but we all know he's not coming back to warm the bench. Also, I think he wants to find a place for Kilbane in the team and has decided that he might be able to do a job in the troublesome left-back position. Kilbane played there for the last 20 minutes against Sweden. Furthermore, its obvious he's going to persist with O'Shea alongside Reid in midfield. I know its early days and a lot will change between now and September. However, judging by Stan's selection policy thus far, I think his preferred starting XI is as follows:

1. Given

2. Carr 4. O'Brien 5. Dunne 3. Kilbane

7. Finnan 6. O'Shea 8. Reid 11. Duff

9. Doyle 10. Keane (C)

I'm not saying I agree with such a selection. In fact, I'd be worried that at least three players on that team are playing out of position - Kilbane, Finnan and O'Shea.

**colster** · 23/05/2006, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.

Looking at that team, its becoming obvious what team Stan would prefer to put out if everyone was fit. For instance, I reckon he's playing Steve Finnan on the right side of midfield because Steve Carr will be right-back for the qualifiers. We might not like Carr but we all know he's not coming back to warm the bench. Also, I think he wants to find a place for Kilbane in the team and has decided that he might be able to do a job in the troublesome left-back position. Kilbane played there for the last 20 minutes against Sweden. Furthermore, its obvious he's going to persist with O'Shea alongside Reid in midfield. I know its early days and a lot will change between now and September. However, judging by Stan's selection policy thus far, I think his preferred starting XI is as follows:

1. Given

2. Carr 4. O'Brien 5. Dunne 3. Kilbane

7. Finnan 6. O'Shea 8. Reid 11. Duff

9. Doyle 10. Keane (C)

I'm not saying I agree with such a selection. In fact, I'd be worried that at least three players on that team are playing out of position - Kilbane, Finnan and O'Shea.

What makes you so sure he's going to play 442. He played 433/451 against Sweden. I think thats the way he's going to play for home games.

**Stuttgart88** · 23/05/2006, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by colster

Folks, looks like we're playing 433/451 formation. e.g.

Given

Finnan Breen Dunne Kelly

Reid O'Shea Kilbane

Doyle Keane Duff

just like we played against Sweden.

You could be right there. Interesting.

**TheJamaicanP.M.** · 23/05/2006, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by colster

What makes you so sure he's going to play 442. He played 433/451 against Sweden. I think thats the way he's going to play for home games.

Yea, that's a fair point and it may well be true. Indeed, I've noticed recently that the underage teams have been using the 433/451 formation which is something that generally didnt happen in the days when McCarthy and Kerr managed the senior team.