England World Cup discussion

**Stuttgart88** · 26/05/2006, 10:30 AM

I just don't get it and also can't make my mind up about England.

They get crap results in friendlies (Argentina aside but Croatia also beat them 3-2). They assume that because they beat Paraguay 3-0 in 1986 and because it's a globally insignificant country that they'll be a walkover, ignoring the fact that they too beat Argentina. Yet their sheer cockiness & belief elevates their standing. Everytime I watch the best of British or Irish against the rest of the world I think: the rest of the planet plays the game on a higher plane than "us". Yet everytime a big tournament approaches I think England might just do it.

Are England genuine contenders or will the usual failings result in failure yet again? I wish I could convince myself either way.

**tetsujin1979** · 26/05/2006, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

They get crap results in friendlies (Argentina aside but Croatia also beat them 3-2).

Don't forget Denmark - 4-1!!

Aside from that, Johnny Giles made an excellent point on Newstalk last night. Because of the way the majority of sides in the Premiership play, posession is frequently given away and teams are renowned for not making good use of possession when they have it. In the majority of domestic games, the top 4 in the country (Chelsea, ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal) don't have to work as hard to get the ball back, and of course they make far better use of it when they have it. When these players make the transition to European and international football they still play the same way, waiting for the opposition to make a mistake so they can retake possession, while still making the same mistakes that they make at club level. This can be especially levelled at the players from teams outside the top 4 (stand up Danny Mills). When playing against opposition whose players are from leagues where possession is prized (Serie A, Primera Lige, Bundesliga, Ligue 1) their players don't give the ball away as often as say, Aston Villa (no offence Villa, I could just as easily pick Charlton, Birmingham, etc) so the English players are left at a disadvantage because these are not the types of games they are used to week in, week out. And this is why I think they will fail to win the World Cup.

**Stuttgart88** · 26/05/2006, 11:16 AM

Yep, in "usual failings" I was including ball retention, or lack of it. Agree. But a bit like the English Rugby World Cup winning team in '03, I think their sheer will to win & conviction they can win it may get them further than usual. That's why I can't fully make my mind up.

**NeilMcD** · 26/05/2006, 2:12 PM

Exit in either the semi or the quarter finals. they have good enough players to get there and should beat Germany or Poland in the 2nd round. They could well win a quarter final and if the worst case scenario is if they win a semi on penalties rather than go out on penalities. But they will not win the tournament.

**eirebhoy** · 27/05/2006, 12:36 PM

We'll find out on Tuesday what team Sven reckons is his best. If it's a 4-4-2 with Gerrard and Lampard in the centre they're screwed imo.

**cheifo** · 28/05/2006, 11:33 PM

IMO they have to play Carrick because he can pass and protect the back four but then where do they play Gerard,Becham and Lampard?Without Roony I think they will rely heavily on Gerard for creativity but he does not like to be the holding midfielder so it could be interesting.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 29/05/2006, 12:31 PM

Looks like Ericsson is going to play 4-4-2 with a Gerrard and Lampard partnership and a Owen/Crouch partnership.

**shakermaker1982** · 29/05/2006, 3:02 PM

Q Finals at best. I think they'll meet Big Phil's side in the Quarters and that will be that for ING GER LAND.

**Stuttgart88** · 30/05/2006, 7:55 AM

Carragher to play holding midfielder tonight. Merciful Jaysus.

**shakermaker1982** · 30/05/2006, 5:16 PM

brilliant move. Fingers crossed Paraguay roll em over now!!!

**NeilMcD** · 30/05/2006, 5:45 PM

What a stupid move that is by England in my view, is obvious that Carrick is the man for that role. In international football its all about keeping the ball and Carrick does that. If Only he were Irish I would have him straight away.

**The Stars** · 30/05/2006, 9:26 PM

After watching them tonight I can safely say that they will not win the World Cup......btw,quote me if you think my saying this will come back to haunt me.

Anyone else notice that when Gerrard clearly DIVED, Lawro didnt even comment on it,instead switching the focus back to Michael Owen's miss.
In the world cup if anyone dives like gerard did tonight they will shame him, saying what a cheat he is etc....

**cheifo** · 31/05/2006, 1:00 AM

Beautiful strike by the Hungarian lad.Leaving Carrick out is just plain stupid altough some of panelists quotes about Hargreaves got a bit personal "he must have something on Sven that he keeps playing him""-Wrighty -a man who makes George W sound like Laurence Olivier.

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2006, 9:16 AM

I didn't see very much of it but from what I read it seems to support my opinion that there'll be no better team in Germany from set-pieces. Whether this'll be enough to compensate for other weaknesses I'm not sure though.

I'm still in a mixed mind. If they play to their strengths, like Man United did in Europe in 1999, a bit of luck like United had could see them win it. But more often than not their style of football falls short against the technically superior brand played almost everywhere else.

**tetsujin1979** · 31/05/2006, 10:16 AM

I thought Ian Wright's comments at half time were disgraceful "well if everyone else is going to do it (dive for a penalty) and do it against us then why can't we do it"??

England were fairly uninspired in the first half, and I only saw the goals in the second hald. Ericsson is on record as saying this is how he will line out against Paraguay, Hungary showed them that they have nothing to fear if they get forward. Carragher didn't do much wrong, but having said that didn't do much to impress and looked far more effective in defence. His range of passing isn't really suited to the holding role. If you had his tackling and reading of the game combined with Beckham's passing ability, then you'd have a perfect holding player.

**shakermaker1982** · 31/05/2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I thought Ian Wright's comments at half time were disgraceful "well if everyone else is going to do it (dive for a penalty) and do it against us then why can't we do it"??

England were fairly uninspired in the first half, and I only saw the goals in the second hald. Ericsson is on record as saying this is how he will line out against Paraguay, Hungary showed them that they have nothing to fear if they get forward. Carragher didn't do much wrong, but having said that didn't do much to impress and looked far more effective in defence. His range of passing isn't really suited to the holding role. If you had his tackling and reading of the game combined with Beckham's passing ability, then you'd have a perfect holding player.

spot on. Wright shouts out live on air that cheating is acceptable and nobody really pulls him up on it. He cannot even speak properly yet presents his own game shows and gets a seat on the MOTD panel?! I am clearly in the wrong trade......

England were very average against a side made up of players from Palace etc.

I can't wait till Argentina/Portugal and Brazil get hold of em. Their only hope is free kicks and corners which is about as exciting as it gets for them.

**eirebhoy** · 31/05/2006, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

England were very average against a side made up of players from Palace etc.

England always look average. They somehow get the result though. They definitely don't look like they have the ability to win the world cup but with Beckham and John Terry they could win it on freekicks alone.

**Stuttgart88** · 31/05/2006, 12:28 PM

Set-pieces are very important. They're a crucial part of Chelsea's success and were a crucial part of any Celtic successes, especially home wins in Europe, under O'Neill.

Graham taylor cited the following stat on Radio 5 Live last night: 40% of all goals come from restarts. Not sure what universe of goals he's referring to but it's telling nonetheless.

**DmanDmythDledge** · 01/06/2006, 11:31 AM

I think England's chances in the World Cup could come down to whether or not Sven can pick the best 11 players at his disposal. Carragher does not have the passing abilities to play in the holding midfield role. Also, I don't think that Gerrard is effective as a second striker. Sven should let him play in a normal midfield position and attack from there, where I think he will be more effective.

**eirebhoy** · 01/06/2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by dmandmythdledge

I think England's chances in the World Cup could come down to whether or not Sven can pick the best 11 players at his disposal. Carragher does not have the passing abilities to play in the holding midfield role. Also, I don't think that Gerrard is effective as a second striker. Sven should let him play in a normal midfield position and attack from there, where I think he will be more effective.

I agree. There's not much changing to do from the last match though. Carrick in for Carragher and Lampard switched with Gerrard. Lampard doesn't know the mean of tackling so he shouldn't be playing behind Gerrard.