A passport is internationally accepted proof of stated nationality - not evidence of entitlement to nationality. There is a big difference.Originally Posted by Krstic
Very strange.
Surely you don't need a passport in order to be a citizen of a country???
I don't have a British passport, but I was born in Northern Ireland so surely the British Government recognise me as British ( Even if I don't)
Or have FIFA now cleared it up once and for all, anyone without a Passport is a non-national
You can be British without holding a British passport. However - you will not be able to prove you are British (e.g. to customs, foreign organisations, internal financiers etc) without one.
Likewise, you can still be de facto an Irish citizen even if you hold a British passport without holding an Irish one (I have friends who do so). Such is the benefit of dual-citizenship (although for legal purposes, it would be difficult in those circumstances to prove you are anything other than British).
At international football games, all players have to prove their credentials to the officials present before they are allowed to play. Hence why passports - as the only internationally accepted proof of nationality - are required.
This is a terrible decision by FIFA, and risks polarising the NI playing squad. I note that the reason they gave is that "The fact that a player holds an Irish Republic passport does not demonstrate conclusively that he or she is eligible to play for Northern Ireland."
I guess this is the key - someone with a Republic passport, no family connection to Northern Ireland, and no entitlement to British citizenship could arguably use an Irish passport to represent the north. There does therefore appear to be a loop-hole there, but surely there's a better way of closing it ??
Would a British passport prove eligibility to play for the North? Can someone born in England whose family for 10 generations have been English play for Northern Ireland? My understanding is that they couldn't but they would still have a British passport.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
FIFA says a player must show a UK passport to 'prove eligibility to play for Nothern Ireland'. So what about UK passport holding players like Wayne Rooney etc...???
A UK passport does no such thing. It is exactly as useful or as useless as an Irish passport from that point of view. What are they at?
Someone who has a British passport would technically be able to prove their entitlement to play for any home nation. Unless and until they introduce Welsh, Scottish and Norn Irish passports, there is no way around this.
In practice, however, the 4 'home nations' select only players with family links.
This is all a result of the historical anachornism whereby the UK is the only political state that is allowed more than one representative in international football. There is constant pressure from other nations for this to change. Some day it may well do so. But until then, we'll be stuck with this imperfect loop-hole regarding players for UK teams.
Please excuse my ignorance here. But what are the current requirements for a player to play for Northern Ireland. Is it anyone who holds a British passport can play?
What then for players who have represented N.Ireland but do not and will not get a British Passport???
Are they now unable to play international football or can they now opt to play for the Rep Of Ireland???
Could mean Paddy McCourt switching to play for ROI
Although I sense that if any player wished to challenge this ruling through the courts on some "Human Rights" issue, they's probably leave FIFA with egg on their Faces.
Pat McCourts International career is over unless he get a British passport!Could mean Paddy McCourt switching to play for ROI
As FIFA rules now stand:
1/ Born in Northern Ireland
2/ Parent or grandparent born in Northern Ireland
3/ Resident for 2 years in Northern Ireland
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
But Dazzy it's not that simple.
If FIFA are only enforcing this rule now then they are potentially making it impossible for Pat or someone similar to play international football.
Therefore they would have to make allowances.
Although I cannot see this rule staying in place as a wee trip to the European court ala Mr Bosman would soon have FIFA ducking for cover.
I'm not Northern Irish because I don't have a British Passport???
Are you sure?
Faeroe Isles = autonomous region of Denmark
Andorra = effective joint authority wielded by Spain (through a bishop, nominally) and France.
The British state having four is an anomaly, but in practice harmless to everyone else. And the trend in European (football) politics is to more micro-countries.
Can't see the situation changing.
**** FIFA
Last edited by Gather round; 25/05/2006 at 6:24 PM.
[QUOTE=Gather round]Are you sure?
Faeroe Isles = autonomous region of Denmark
Andorra = effective joint authority wielded by Spain (through a bishop, nominally) and France.
The British state having four is an anomaly, but in practice harmless to everyone else. And the trend in European (football) politics is to more micro-countries.
Can't see the situation changing.
Not Brazil seems to have summarised the situation- no problem, is there?[/QUOTE]
Yes there is a problem, you don't have to hold a British Passport to be Northern Irish.
FIFA are effectively alienting more Nationalists from the Northern Ireland set up.
Just because someone refuses to take a British passport does not mean they're not proud to be from Northern Ireland.
Krstic- I read the FIFA decision only after NB's brief point about qualifying.
I then edited out because clearly FIFA's decision is crass and regressive. A British passport should not be needed to play for NI. And players who don't want one shouldn't have to choose between it and playing. Completely crazy.
Too right.
Although something tells me it'll be sorted out.
Either in court or with a simple phone call from Tony Bliar
Yes. There was a German(?) player who was in England long enough to get a passport and promptly declared for Wales(?) not so long ago. A goalkeeper, IIRC.Would a British passport prove eligibility to play for the North? Can someone born in England whose family for 10 generations have been English play for Northern Ireland? My understanding is that they couldn't but they would still have a British passport.
Looks like the new rules stop this though.
So previous to this new ruling, did this mean that anyone born within the Commonwealth/British Empire was eligible to play for any other country within the same?
Seems so. Maik Taylor was the guy I was thinking of:
http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps...CMENEMY12.htmlWhen I became manager of Northern Ireland, I tried everywhere to get new players.
I confided my problems to Kevin Keegan, who was managing Fulham where Maik was his goalkeeper. Kevin reminded me of Maik's situation regarding international football, so I decided to use the Jackie Charlton rule book!
Maik was actually born in Germany (his father was in the Forces) but had a British passport. This qualified him to play for Germany - or any of the home nations.
He was th esame player I had in mind. Did I hear recently of some guy with a Lithuanian sounding name to play for NI or Wales?
Just thought of something.
As far as I'm aware, Northern Irish people can actually hold both a British and Irish passport at the same time if they want to. Citizenship of neither state requires you to formally give up citizenship entilements to anywhere else (unlike the US, for example)
Maybe a solution for this therefore could be for the players who consider themselves Irish to get a British passport as well as their Irish one - purely to show to UEFA/FIFA officials. They wouldn't even need to travel on it. They would still hold an Irish passport, so would still have full legal and de-facto Irish citizenship.
I can understand Nationalist players not wanting to be forced into taking a British passport instead of an Irish one. But I would hope that most would have no problem with having a British passport as well, particularly if it was a 'badge of convenience' / cosmetic one purely for footballing purposes. I would hope that no-one bar hard-nosed Republicans would have a problem with this - and they probably wouldn't want to play for the dirty North anyway !
Not at all - how do you come to that conclusion ?
Firstly, there is no longer any such thing as the British Empire, nor has there been for some time.
Secondly, for example - Canada and South Africa are both in the Commonwealth. If you have a Canadian passport you are in no way entitled to play for South Africa, and vice-versa.
This is fairly common sense stuff - I'm shocked you even needed to ask
Last edited by dahamsta; 30/05/2006 at 1:04 PM.
That is the sensible way around it if FIFA continue to be stupid and dig their heels in.
dcfc,
It's not a question of it being a possible solution, it's the way it is.
The FIFA ruling does not require any Northern Irish player to relinquish their Irish Passport.
It requires all Northern Ireland players to obtain a British Passport for the purposes of FIFA eligibility confirmation only.
A Northern Ireland player can travel on his Irish passport. They will need a British Passport too, for when the FIFA man does his checks.
Given our sensitivities in this part of the world, it's a ****** rule.
The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
And this is what we sang...
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