NI Passports

**Not Brazil** · 19/05/2006, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by REVIP

I would agree with the letter.

Even tho it has been clearly demonstrated that the thrust of the letter is inaccurate and misleading?

**dcfcsteve** · 19/05/2006, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by SwiftsSupporter

Yes it is a letter but a letter published by the paper. This passport issue was brought up because of FIFA and UEFA were getting allegedly confused by players having different passports. What’s bigotry about that? and what does it have to do with religion?

I don't buy this innocent buck-passing on the part of the IFA.

The IFA are fully aware that there are 2 communities in Northern Ireland, holding 2 different passports - one British, one Irish. Not every member of one community holds one specific passport and vice-versa - but broadly there is a passport divide that also reflects the religious and cultural divide.

When this issue was raised with the IFA they had two choices :

A) Explain the unique nature of Northern Ireland to UEFA/FIFA, and have their officials accept that either of only 2 specific passports would be acceptable in legitimising Northern Irish players. Hardly a difficult task.
B) Accept the FIFA/UEFA communication unchallenegd - in the full knowledge that it would probably cause a stink back home.

In their infinite wisdom, the IFA chose option B. Nothing short of partisanship, extreme naivety, incompetence or sheer stupidity can explain this decision. I suspect a mix of all 4 - with stupidity being the lion's share.

It seems that they have now accepted that they need to do option A above - which they could have done in the first place.

So - to blame FIFA/UEFA for this is to completely let the IFA off the hook on their failed duty of representing the interests of their members/community/country within International football. Particularly as they were the ones who best understood the problems such a ruling would predictably create. Hence why the IFA is worthy of criticism on this issue

**Not Brazil** · 19/05/2006, 5:05 PM

Could I remind posters that NOBODY said that players could not utilise either a British or Irish passport to travel on.

I agree with dcfcsteve in that the IFA should have more proactively challenged the FIFA/UEFA ruling initially.

Very simply, they should (and now have) explained to the authorities that matters of identity can get some people very touchy in Northern Ireland.

Both FIFA and UEFA are fully aware of the efforts the IFA have made in recent times to challenge bigotries, and they should have been informed earlier that their ruling did not help.

But, let's not forget the fact that this story comes directly from a FIFA/UEFA ruling, not an IFA one.

I think the matter will be resolved satisfactorily for all concerned in the very near future.

**Gather round** · 19/05/2006, 8:10 PM

Donal from Cavan is ****-stirring. Taking his points in order,

a) much as I welcome the Setanta Cup, "tremendous" is going a bit far

b) its inception no more represents the end of bigotry than its absence in the past reflects that. Teams from both leagues have been playing each other, and trading players, for decades. Were they bigoted nevertheless?

c) there isn't really any more possibility of an all-Ireland league now than in the 1920s or 90s, is there? As seems to have been discussed exhaustively on this forum

d) what was so vicious or naked about our routine draw with Portugal last year? Unless you mean Cristiano Ronaldo taking a **** against the North Stand. And without condoning what happened in 1993, you're exaggerating. Irish fans have seen far worse elsewhere, including in Lansdowne Road in 1995. Much of the criticism of the earlier game was because Bingham encouraged our fans to get behind the team. What did you expect, him to treat it as a friendly, or go somewhere neutral as Jack demanded?

e) dinosaurs. Ok, fair dos, point taken...

f) I'd argue that the IFA's decision wasn't "crass", though I disagree with it. Yes, there are particular circumstances in Northern Ireland, but those (on both sides) who think it unique are surely wrong. There are plenty of regions elsewhere in Europe with often much larger disaffected minorities looking across a border for identity- Transylvania, much of ex-Yugoslavia etc. We don't stand out in deserving a special dispensation

g) as non-Brazilian suggests, it's set community harmony back a week or two before UEFA announces a compromise for us (and Erdelyi, Bosna Srpska and the rest)

h) most fans don't really care whether players are de facto green or orange (actually don't you mean de jure, de facto they can have whatever politics they please, or none?), provided they take playing international football seriously. NI have plenty, from, both sides, who haven't!

i) regardless of the Irish Times's politics (and while Prods in the South may tend to prefer it to other papers, they aren't numerous enough to dictate editorial line), Geraldine Kennedy does emply sub-editors. Whose job should include culling obvious bull**** like Donal's from the letters page.

**REVIP** · 19/05/2006, 9:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gather round

regardless of the Irish Times's politics (and while Prods in the South may tend to prefer it to other papers, they aren't numerous enough to dictate editorial line), Geraldine Kennedy does emply sub-editors. Whose job should include culling obvious bull**** like Donal's from the letters page.

The Irish Times sells about 110-120,000 copies - the mainstream Protestant community at the 2002 census was about 150,000 - about 60,000 households, predominantly middle class and predominantly Irish Times readers.

The Times very much reflects their ethos, liberal on social issues such as divorce and contraception, and conservative on economic issues. Some of the Protestants I know would have voted PD last time, most would be Fine Gael. Geraldine Kennedy would not be out of line with many of them.

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Even tho it has been clearly demonstrated that the thrust of the letter is inaccurate and misleading?

The thrust of the letter was that it was people's own business what passport they carried.

The IFA shouldn't have allowed the matter to reach the pitch it did.

**dcfcsteve** · 19/05/2006, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gather round

c) there isn't really any more possibility of an all-Ireland league now than in the 1920s...is there?

But we did have an All-island league for one and a half years in the 1920's !

Before the Free Staters got carried away with themselves and split the party up......

**SwiftsSupporter** · 20/05/2006, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I don't buy this innocent buck-passing on the part of the IFA.

The IFA are fully aware that there are 2 communities in Northern Ireland, holding 2 different passports - one British, one Irish. Not every member of one community holds one specific passport and vice-versa - but broadly there is a passport divide that also reflects the religious and cultural divide.

When this issue was raised with the IFA they had two choices :

A) Explain the unique nature of Northern Ireland to UEFA/FIFA, and have their officials accept that either of only 2 specific passports would be acceptable in legitimising Northern Irish players. Hardly a difficult task.
B) Accept the FIFA/UEFA communication unchallenegd - in the full knowledge that it would probably cause a stink back home.

In their infinite wisdom, the IFA chose option B. Nothing short of partisanship, extreme naivety, incompetence or sheer stupidity can explain this decision. I suspect a mix of all 4 - with stupidity being the lion's share.

It seems that they have now accepted that they need to do option A above - which they could have done in the first place.

So - to blame FIFA/UEFA for this is to completely let the IFA off the hook on their failed duty of representing the interests of their members/community/country within International football. Particularly as they were the ones who best understood the problems such a ruling would predictably create. Hence why the IFA is worthy of criticism on this issue

They could have done that first but then again it's much better to spread it all over the press, as Mr. Boyce loves seeing himself in lights. The issue was handled badly I think we all know that but if your writing a letter about it there’s no need to bring religion into it.

Some people just like to go round and try and find something where they can mention bigotry, sectarianism and so on no matter what the issue is.

**Not Brazil** · 20/05/2006, 9:55 AM

I watched a Northern Ireland Under 21 team (ie. the future) earlier this month.

It included a Celtic goalkeeper, a Glentoran full back from Poleglass (former Antrim Minor GAA player), a Derry City Centre Half, a Linfield Centre Forward and the team was captained proudly by a player from nationalist West Belfast.

Who cares what passport they have?

**Dassa** · 20/05/2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I watched a Northern Ireland Under 21 team (ie. the future) earlier this month.

It included a Celtic goalkeeper, a Glentoran full back from Poleglass (former Antrim Minor GAA player), a Derry City Centre Half, a Linfield Centre Forward and the team was captained proudly by a player from nationalist West Belfast.

Who cares what passport they have?

Couldnt agree more and heres hoping it contnues. Oh and of course we won

**Speranza** · 20/05/2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Who cares what passport they have?

They do, it can't be overlooked as being a simple bit of red tape which can be dealt with. The "nationality" of the players has to be respected.

However, Mr Ramsey is a hypocrite to show any interest in local football while the council his party run in Derry continue to show total distain and apathy towards the Brandywell problem.

**Dassa** · 20/05/2006, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Speranza

They do, it can't be overlooked as being a simple bit of red tape which can be dealt with. The "nationality" of the players has to be respected.

However, Mr Ramsey is a hypocrite to show any interest in local football while the council his party run in Derry continue to show total distain and apathy towards the Brandywell problem.

Personally hope the IFA sort this matter out pronto. would be a shame to see all their hard work and that of the true fans go down the drain over something like this. As for derry council lets face it is there any council in NI that support their local clubs?

**Speranza** · 20/05/2006, 12:44 PM

You are right about local councils in general but DCC should be held up as a prime example of how not to run a City. They are a disgrace and a shambles and waste away the huge potential our city has.

**Dassa** · 20/05/2006, 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by Speranza

You are right about local councils in general but DCC should be held up as a prime example of how not to run a City. They are a disgrace and a shambles and waste away the huge potential our city has.

maybe just there attitude to football remember reading somewhere about the council controversally giving whacks of land to GAA clubs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4583502.stm

Dont know everything about it just what i read, but seems clear alot of help towards these clubs not afforded to DCFC or IFC.

the only council to seemingly put any effort into their club is that of ballymena with the council funding that new impressive stand.

**Speranza** · 20/05/2006, 1:17 PM

If the council were balanced in how their give land away then I wouldn't have a problem but they have given Sean Dolans GFC this land and refuse to give us the Brandy. Within the next month we should hear back from DCC so I'm hoping they will be sensible (for a change) and make the move that will benefit the City as a whole.

**Dassa** · 20/05/2006, 1:26 PM

out of curiousity does the council own the Brandywell and riverside or just the brandywell. have the club ever been in the situation to buy it off the DCC or is it unrealistic in money terms.

**anto eile** · 20/05/2006, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

3/ Resident for 2 years "on the terrority of the relevant national association" (note not country)

off topic i know but does that mean if i went to live in equatiorial guinea for 2 years i could play for them?

**dcfcsteve** · 21/05/2006, 1:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dassa

out of curiousity does the council own the Brandywell and riverside or just the brandywell. have the club ever been in the situation to buy it off the DCC or is it unrealistic in money terms.

Just the Brandywell.

It was bequeathed to the Council to hold in-trust for the people of Derry by the Honourable Irish Society, with a pre-requisite that it be used primarily for sport.

DCC therefore cannot sell it off, but they could issue a long lease on it - which is the proposal from DCFC.

And because soccer isn't a proverbial political football in the city, we get nothing form the Council whilst GAA clubs get lots.

**Thunderblaster** · 21/05/2006, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And because soccer isn't a proverbial political football in the city, we get nothing form the Council whilst GAA clubs get lots.

What is the political make up of DCC? Can you lobby the politicians on that matter? Isn't Derry more of a soccer city than GAA? If these guys come looking for your vote, politely remind them of this.

**Dazzy** · 21/05/2006, 11:07 AM

Every politician puts on the we care about you act around election but then they do **** all and spend a fortune cutting grass 2 times a year around the town, and its more then the figure then spend maintaining the Brandywell!