But he is trying to learn it... so it's hardly an unwillingness to include himself in their culture. It seems he can understand it pretty well but is unable to speak it. That seems reasonable enough, I did Irish for thirteen years and can't understand or speak it.Originally Posted by GypsyBlackCat
Is Anto Flood fluent in Swedish? John Byrne played for Le Harve but never spoke a word of French. I don't know about any players learn the language but it's more than that. A lot of players don't embrace the culture of different countries. McGeady never really took to Russia and was disciplined by the club on a few occasions.
http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...ng-team-orders
The most successful Irish players aboard tend to embrace their new country. Let's be honest, apart from Brady, Aldridge, Cascarino maybe Harte and Babb, Irish players as well as British players don't fair well aboard. All I can think of is Charles, Platt, Lineker and Hoddle. It must be the lifestyle.
Bisto was only in Sweden for three months but I'm sure he picked something up. Dunno about John Byrne but I'll take your word for it. McGeady may not have taken to Russia completely but he learned the language so that doesn't really help your point. All you've given us so far is 7-8 examples of Irish players who have embraced life outside of the anglosphere and one example (maybe) of a player who didn't. It doesn't exactly suggest Irish players should be lumped in with British players.
Stapleton flopped at Ajax and din't sight the world alight at Anderlecht and Le Harve.
Padraig Amond didn't make it at Pacos.
Finnan only got 4 games at Espanyol.
Ashley Grimes at Osunasa.
McGeady wasn't a success at Spartak.
John Byrne was let go by Le Harve.
Anto Flood didn't make it at Orebro.
For whatever reason, whether it be for lifestyle (that would include language) or the fact they weren't good enough. We had a few hits and a few misses. We have a few footballing nomads like Sheridan, Mehmet and O'Dea. But the fact remains that young Irish players, for whatever reason, rather drop down to League One or Two or move to the SPL than take a chance in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium and Holland.
Put those goalposts right back where they were, young man.
You said British and Irish players fail outside the UK + Ireland because they generally don't embrace the culture.
Stapleton didn't succeed but clearly he was willing to give it a go in a few different countries. Amond wasn't good enough for the Portuguese Liga, plain and simple - he still gave it a go. Finnan was chronically injured. McGeady might not have been the success you wanted him to be but he returned a better player than when he left and he learned the languague, so no question of him not embracing the lifestyle.
I think you should probably just stop this ludicrous line of reasoning. We've already seen you can provide far more examples that disprove your point than prove it.
A better player?!
Go on an Everton forum and say that!
He moaned he wanted to go back to Britain and was fined for his lack of effort in training and disobeying team rules. Ian Rush gave it a shot but still said 'living in Turin is like being in a foreign country' and Luther Blisset moved to AC Milan but couldn't get any Rice Krispes! A lot of British and Irish players fail aboard because they don't or can't embrace the lifestyle. Lifestyle would include the language, culture, food, training methods, style of play. McGeady learned the language but didn't accept the training and professional side of Russian football and that's why they sold him for half the price they paid Celtic for him.
Many Irish and British have been successful because they adapted to their new country and style of play.
Spartak was a basket case as anyone with half an eye on the situation knew. Citing his discomfort playing under a band of lunatics is a stretch, even for you. And yes, he did come back a better player, I don't give a monkeys what Everton fans think. It's pretty obvious watching him play that he become a more disciplined and tactically-aware player, from playing in a more technical league.
And yes, I read the interview you're referring to him moaning about, and you're clearly scraping the very bottom of the barrel to rescue the very last your increasingly ridiculous point.
Liam Brady did okay…………… I jest…He did blooming marvellous. In those days when the Italians rated you as a player (particularly as a foreign player) one of the big tests/example was if other Italian Clubs would sign you if you became available.
There is so much wrong with GypsyBlackCats posts this past day that it would take a while to dissect. The McGeady reference, and the Finnan one though is comedy gold.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
I remember reading a newspaper feature years ago about Michael Robinson and his punditry work in Spain. The Irish journalist profiling him went to a game with him and while they were there an elderly gentleman approached and started speaking enthusiastically and effusively to Robinson in Spanish and it was clear he was heaping praise on him. When he left the journalist asked "who was that old fella" and Robinson replied "that was Alfredo Di Stefano". Fun fact about Michael Robinson (if true) - apparently he voiced the ugly sister in the dubbed Spanish versions of the Shrek movies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michae...)#Media_career
John Aldridge is another good example of an Irish player embracing Spanish culture and language - I remember Ireland playing Portugal in Euro 96 qualifiers at Lansdowne Road - we went ahead just before half-time through a Vitor Baia own goal - Aldridge squared up to Fernando Couto and had a few choice words for him in Spanish - afterwards he said "I know there's differences between the languages but I think he got the message" - ah, trust Aldo to learn the swear words first.
Barca friend told me he was also swearing in Spanish during that infamous substitution in the US World cup. Wasnt it hard for Aldo since he was Real Sociedad's first non basque signing so he had to make more of an effort, and by the end of the season he was loved by the fans
edit: good link here about it
http://www.espnfc.com/spanish-primer...rites-sid-lowe
Well I'll take your word over the many, many Everton season ticket holders.
id love to know what players everton fans were in fact happy with last season
Who you have of course polled vigourously?
We all know that club fora are an oasis of calm reflective opinion.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
First WBA fans and now Everton fans. You're really in tune with the opinions of noisy PL fans.
You're not really dealing with CD's point there. If we're going to compare McGeady pre-Spartak with McGeady post-Spartak, we've got a big variable, when considering club level, between the SPL and the PL and Celtic and Everton. The one constant level that McGeady played at pre-Spartak and post-Spartak is senior international level. He has become a better player at senior international level. He's more tactically disciplined, has improved his end product and is less prone to running down blind alleys.
So we should ignore clubs fans because they criticize Irish players? Why only judge him at international level?
Back to my original point. We have an influx of foreign players heading towards England but very few heading in the opposite direction. We've seen players move to Europe with mixed success and it seems reluctant to move. Players would rather drop down a league than move to a top flight league in Bulgaria or Cyprus like Sheridan has done or Ukraine like O'Dea did. Why is it? Is it the fear of moving to a new country or the fear of failure?
its because even dreadful players get well paid in England when compared to abroad
I agree with your point that, in some cases, it may be positive to move abroad to continental Europe instead of slipping down the leagues. Ruud Doktor stated that he thinks Irish players should move to countries where their particular style of game would be developed best. He name-checked Jack Byrne's move to Cambuur which is a case in point. Byrne would not have been well-served playing in League One for a season, or maybe Championship. Look at how little Josh McEachran developed in all of his loan spells down the leagues, a similar player to Byrne in some ways. See also the lumps that Jack Grealish got kicked out of him at Notts County. And he was playing out on the wing, not in the centre which is where Byrne seems to only play.
I can't really comment on players' reluctance or otherwise to make the move because personal situations vary amongst players. For example, it's pretty clear that Cillian Sheridan is something of an adventurous, free spirit so the travelling probably suits his personality.
Last edited by Olé Olé; 29/07/2015 at 10:49 AM.
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