National Anthem

**Dr.Nightdub** · 27/04/2006, 9:57 PM

One easy solution, which ought to leave everyone happy and cheesed off in equal measure: next time anyone playing Linfield gets the hump from them singing God Save The Queen, just sing the Pistols' version back at them.

**thomas** · 28/04/2006, 7:53 AM

The Nay Feiners pretty much sum Ireland up.

**David** · 28/04/2006, 8:13 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

.

From my own perspective, I do not see how GSTQ and Rule Brittania has anything to do with the history of a football team. Believe it or not, some people I know are offended when they hear these songs and I doubt that the singers of these songs are totally unaware that they can be viewed by a sizeable amount of fellow football supporters as being offensive. While I am more inclined to consider the singing of these songs with more a sense of amusement than anything else, I can't see for the life of me the day when I go to a football match and sing Amhran na bFhiann as a vocal gesture in support of my team. It just doesn't fit.

Can you please explain to me what anyone could possibly find offensive about either song?

**Not Brazil** · 28/04/2006, 8:28 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesThompson

I can't see for the life of me the day when I go to a football match and sing Amhran na bFhiann as a vocal gesture in support of my team. It just doesn't fit.

Seems to fit in ok at Parkhead....ironically a British football stadium.

**gspain** · 28/04/2006, 8:44 AM

The eenie meeny ryhme is still used in playgrounds - at least in my daughters now it is

"Catch a tigger by the toe" i.e. the Winnie the pooh character.

As for the songs, I don't find GSTQ or RB to be offensive. They are certainly provocative and the fans around me in Tolka took offence to the RB chants. "All Ireland champions" didn't go down well either.

While I wouldn't agree with the sentiments in RB I enjoy a non racist and non sectarian chant that winds up opposition fans and must admit that was certainly a good one.

However The Billy Boys is clearly offensive and sectarian and needs to be stamped out or at least modified.

**David** · 28/04/2006, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

The eenie meeny ryhme is still used in playgrounds - at least in my daughters now it is

"Catch a tigger by the toe" i.e. the Winnie the pooh character.

As for the songs, I don't find GSTQ or RB to be offensive. They are certainly provocative and the fans around me in Tolka took offence to the RB chants. "All Ireland champions" didn't go down well either.

While I wouldn't agree with the sentiments in RB I enjoy a non racist and non sectarian chant that winds up opposition fans and must admit that was certainly a good one.

However The Billy Boys is clearly offensive and sectarian and needs to be stamped out or at least modified.

Agree totally with your last point but what the hell is the problem with All Ireland Champions?

**Jerry The Saint** · 28/04/2006, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Only in Northern Ireland could someone use the word 'darkie' without genuinely meaning any offence, and have no-one bat an eyelid in response. Says it all really.....

This isn't a NI thing, it happens everywhere especially with older people. My dad, for example, he's not as cosmopolitan or as educated as me and it can be embarrasing. He doesn't understand all the new trendy words - like he'll say "poofs" instead of "gays", "birds" instead of "women" or "darkies" instead of "coloureds".

**Schumi** · 28/04/2006, 5:29 PM

Originally Posted by gspain

the fans around me in Tolka took offence to the RB chants.

But not to Billy Boys strangely.

**Poor Student** · 29/04/2006, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry The Saint

"darkies" instead of "coloureds".

Coloureds is an acceptable term?

**Speranza** · 29/04/2006, 1:40 PM

It's a line from The Office. Genius.

**Poor Student** · 29/04/2006, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by Speranza

It's a line from The Office. Genius.

Ahhhh.

**lopez** · 29/04/2006, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by David

Can you please explain to me what anyone could possibly find offensive about either song?

Britannia rules the waves? Who the f*ck said Britannia could rule anyone? Britons never being 'slaves' would be fine if this courtesy was extended to other people. GSTQ mentioning the Scots isn't exactly inclusive, is it? but I'd be a hypocrite if found this offensive, especially as the Scots haven't exactly done much to break the union in the last 400 years. True this is all in the past, blah, blah, and we all know that in the six counties the past is one thing that isn't dwellt on

.

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Seems to fit in ok at Parkhead....ironically a British football stadium.

Well they seem to have their own version there. Don't remember 'The Soldier's Song' mentioning el Papa. Still, offensive to Irish unionists - 'Saxon foe' etc. - I wouldn't dream of even attemtpting to argue it wasn't, even though, obviously, I personally find nothing offensive in it to me.

**Speranza** · 29/04/2006, 2:03 PM

Not Brazil, what does Celtic fans songbook have to do with Irish football?

**CollegeTillIDie** · 29/04/2006, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by lopez

Britannia rules the waves? Who the f*ck said Britannia could rule anyone? Britons never being 'slaves' would be fine if this courtesy was extended to other people. GSTQ mentioning the Scots isn't exactly inclusive, is it? but I'd be a hypocrite if found this offensive, especially as the Scots haven't exactly done much to break the union in the last 400 years. True this is all in the past, blah, blah, and we all know that in the six counties the past is one thing that isn't dwellt on

.

Reminds me of a joke I heard when I was young ... passenger plane landing at Belfast International Airport.... announcement by Stewardess
" Ladies and Gentlemen we are now landing at Aldergrove Airport,please return to your seats, and make sure your seatbelts are fastened , and turn your watches back 300 years "

**David** · 29/04/2006, 10:22 PM

Seriously the attitude on here is rapidly changing my views towards an all Ireland League. Such intolerance is unbelievable. People are now starting to quote verses from GSTQ that some people may find offensive. Do Linfield supporters sing these verses, no they dont. Indeed I have never heard my National Anthem sung in its entirity anywhere. Cliftonville supporters have on occasions sang the Irish National Anthem at games and you know what, I am not at all offended by it because I can tolerate other peoples beliefs. Now what I would find offensive is people singing the name of a guy who planted a bomb around the corner from where I live, killing people that I knew which is reportedly what Derry City supporters did against Glentoran in the Setanta Cup but sure it is only Linfield supporters that are sectarian. I am as keen as anyone to rid the game of sectarianism but I am clear in my mind what songs are and are not a problem and just because I do not like some songs does not mean they are sectarian or offensive. As I said a bit of tolerance is certainly what is needed. By all means complain about the likes of the Billy Boys, I will gladly back you up but if people want to be patriotic at a football match by singing songs that nobody could possibly find offence in then that is their right and it is not sectarian just because you feel it is wrong to sing them at a football match. If you do not want to sing patriotic songs, that is up to you, but equally give others the same choice without demonising them for doing so.

**JW.** · 30/04/2006, 12:01 AM

David, you cannot equate the (wrong) decision to play the Irish anthem before the Setanta final with Linfield singing GSTQ and Rule Britannia. I imagine the anthem was played to add to the sense of occasion, for all that it was clearly an ill-judged decision.
The issue of Linfield fans going to Tolka and singing Rule Britannia is a totally different matter. I've no problem accepting you as British, so why should the only British fans that would even think about singing that have to hail from Northern Ireland? Rule Britannia is a triumphalist song that was sung at Tolka and other places purely for reasons to do with provocation. The more you wave the flag, the more you emphasise insecurities regarding your identity.

**dcfcsteve** · 30/04/2006, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by David

Now what I would find offensive is people singing the name of a guy who planted a bomb around the corner from where I live, killing people that I knew which is reportedly what Derry City supporters did against Glentoran in the Setanta Cup but sure it is only Linfield supporters that are sectarian.

What the f uck are you talking about David ??? You're seriously losing the plot here.

Derry City fans have a long tradition of not singing sectarian songs. End of story.

A small number of people wearing Cliftonville regalia somehow got tickets for our section of the Oval during our Setanta game against the Glens there. I have no idea of what particular songs they sang, but they were made unwelcome by the Derry fans around them. They then proceeded to start fights with the same Derry fans at the end of the game. This has been well-documented on both the Derry City forum and ILF.

Ironically, the very few problems I have ever been aware of in the 20 years we've been back in business have all involved Cliftonville fans - either against our fans with their Shamrock Rover buddys, mixing in with our fans to try to abuse other teams, or in the case of the Glens game - both mixing in with our fans and then causing trouble against them. Even in the EL it seems we can't escape the sh!t that goes on in theg Irish league....

Perhaps we should have just chanted songs like "if you hate the f*cking Fenians clap your hands...", like the best fans in Ireland...

Take yer head out of yer arse with your petty "reported" accusations. Nobody buys them here fella.......

**Anto McC** · 30/04/2006, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by David

Seriously the attitude on here is rapidly changing my views towards an all Ireland League.

Good thing its not up to you so...

I dont give a f*ck who sings what,it's only a song,if your gonna be sensitive enough to be offended by a song,then you deserve to be!!

I used to care about things like that but i realised it not worth it,not over a song anyway!

**Speranza** · 30/04/2006, 2:45 AM

Originally Posted by David

I will gladly back you up but if people want to be patriotic at a football match by singing songs that nobody could possibly find offence in then that is their right and it is not sectarian just because you feel it is wrong to sing them at a football match. If you do not want to sing patriotic songs, that is up to you, but equally give others the same choice without demonising them for doing so.

I alike every other el fan will keep "patriotic" songs well away until Ireland matches. Glentoran fans who from the most part come from the loyalist areas of East Belfast feel absolutely no need to be "patriotic" at domestic games but I'm sure they are still proud of their identity. What place has GSTQ or RB got in domestic matches?

**CollegeTillIDie** · 30/04/2006, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by Speranza

I alike every other el fan will keep "patriotic" songs well away until Ireland matches. Glentoran fans who from the most part come from the loyalist areas of East Belfast feel absolutely no need to be "patriotic" at domestic games but I'm sure they are still proud of their identity. What place has GSTQ or RB got in domestic matches?

I would argue that Rule Britannia has no role whatsoever in any football match at any time. GSTQ is fine at the start of an international match involving England but other than at that point no role whatsoever. Amhran na bhFian should only be sung at the start of international matches involving the Republic by the same token!