Threats of death force two soccer players to quit the North

[Not Brazil]

And as for Not Brazil crying to the Mods about being called a Bigot by Steve, surely that's a bit rich when Not Brazil you decide to call me sectarian.

I didn't. Stop lying.

What I said (and what I meant) was "You really need to get your head out of the bog of sectarianism that it currently seems to be obsessed with chief"

A quick perusal over this thread will clearly demonstrate that you have a rather unhealthy fascination with football players' religious denominations.

I don't give a **** what religion, if any, anyone is.

You really need to move on chief.

[Krstic]

I didn't. Stop lying.

What I said (and what I meant) was "You really need to get your head out of the bog of sectarianism that it currently seems to be obsessed with chief"

A quick perusal over this thread will clearly demonstrate that you have a rather unhealthy fascination with football players' religious denominations.

I don't give a **** what religion, if any, anyone is.

You really need to move on chief.

So now you're calling me a liar as well, even though you have again accused me of being sectarian.(hard to deny you are calling me sectarian since you have now posted it twice)
Well i think even a blind man looking at this thread will see that although i have got carried away and gone a little over the top for a footie forum, i certainly haven't lied, resorted to name calling or gone crying to the mods about any of your accusations against me.
So maybe you should take a little bit of your own advice and move on.

[Not Brazil]

Uruguay played you off the park but you beat them 1-0 with Alan McDonald scoring the goal.
Gary Fleming was playing and when he got the ball he was called a dirty fenian and fu ck off back to (london) Derry ya fenian Cu nt.

I don't think Gary Fleming played in the game.

Your rant appears to be falling apart at the seams.

Wrong goalscorer and made up stories about someone who wasn't even playing.

"even though you have again accused me of being sectarian"

No, I have not. You are therefore either a liar, or you are being obtuse.

[Krstic]

I don't think Gary Fleming played in the game.

Your rant appears to be falling apart at the seams.

Wrong goalscorer and made up stories about someone who wasn't even playing.

"even though you have again accused me of being sectarian"

No, I have not. You are therefore either a liar, or you are being obtuse.

Go back and check your facts about either one of the games I mentioned, Fleming played.

I just check, he played in the spain game on 14/10/92 and wore the no.2 jersey
So at least get your facts straight before you start the name calling.

And then take your name calling back to ILF where it belongs.

[Not Brazil]

Go back and check your facts about either one of the games I mentioned, Fleming played.

I just check, he played in the spain game on 14/10/92 and wore the no.2 jersey
So at least get your facts straight before you start the name calling.

And then take your name calling back to ILF where it belongs.

You are backtracking.

Gary Fleming did not play in the game against Uruguay.

Let me remind you of what you said:

"Uruguay played you off the park but you beat them 1-0 with Alan McDonald scoring the goal.
Gary Fleming was playing ..."

So, you were inaccurate on two counts.

My facts are perfectly straight.

I do not come from the ILF so therefore I will not be taking anything back to ILF.

[Krstic]

You are backtracking.

Gary Fleming did not play in the game against Uruguay.

Let me remind you of what you said:

"Uruguay played you off the park but you beat them 1-0 with Alan McDonald scoring the goal.
Gary Fleming was playing ..."

So, you were inaccurate on two counts.

My facts are perfectly straight.

I do not come from the ILF so therefore I will not be taking anything back to ILF.

On 21/04/06 @ 8.51, I mentioned 2 games my uncle told about. Wrong goalscorer for one granted but then my uncles no spring chicken.
I also mentioned the spain game of the same campaign, those were the 2 games he was at.
I started a new paragraph when mentioning Gary Fleming, which you have neatly altered.
I may not have translated my uncles message very well but the facts are there, he was at those 2 games, fleming played in one and got abuse from his own fans.

You seem to be unable to believe this, yet the problem of your fans booing their own players has been well docmented in the past.

But as i said to David i think i'll leave it at that, so on your next abusive post i think I'll just give you a miss.

Bye now.

[Not Brazil]

On 21/04/06 @ 8.51, I mentioned 2 games my uncle told about. Wrong goalscorer for one granted but then my uncles no spring chicken.
I also mentioned the spain game of the same campaign, those were the 2 games he was at.
I started a new paragraph when mentioning Gary Fleming, which you have neatly altered.
I may not have translated my uncles message very well but the facts are there, he was at those 2 games, fleming played in one and got abuse from his own fans.

You seem to be unable to believe this, yet the problem of your fans booing their own players has been well docmented in the past.

But as i said to David i think i'll leave it at that, so on your next abusive post i think I'll just give you a miss.

Bye now.

Let's get some facts sorted out.

1. The Uruguay game was on the 18th May 1990.

2. Gary Fleming did not play in that game.

3. The Spain game in Belfast that Gary Fleming played in was, as you stated, on 14th October 1992 in a World Cup qualifier (0-0). This was not "the same campaign"

4. I do not know if Gary Fleming was abused or not during the 1992 game. I was at the game, but I do not recall him being abused. That is not to say that he wasn't.

5. Until your comments on this thread, I was totally unaware of what Gary Fleming's religious denomination was.

6. I do not care what religion, if any, a player is. If he wears the Green shirt, that's all that interests me.

7. I do not deny anything of the past. I work to ensure that sectarian chanting is a thing of the past at Northern Ireland games. I abhor it.

8. Almost every team has an element of supporters who can let the other fans down on occassion. Northern Ireland fans are no different in this regard, although hard work has ensured that the atmosphere nowadays is something special.

9. Players from both major traditions in Northern Ireland are represented in our international teams at every level. They always were, and they always will be.

10. If you wish to discuss matters pertaining to the Northern Ireland international football team, I would respectfully suggest that you get your facts right before posting. Where you are inaccurate, expect to be challenged.

Goodbye.

[Krstic]

Let's get some facts sorted out.

1. The Uruguay game was on the 18th May 1990.

2. Gary Fleming did not play in that game.

3. The Spain game in Belfast that Gary Fleming played in was, as you stated, on 14th October 1992 in a World Cup qualifier (0-0). This was not "the same campaign"

4. I do not know if Gary Fleming was abused or not during the 1992 game. I was at the game, but I do not recall him being abused. That is not to say that he wasn't.

5. Until your comments on this thread, I was totally unaware of what Gary Fleming's religious denomination was.

6. I do not care what religion, if any, a player is. If he wears the Green shirt, that's all that interests me.

7. I do not deny anything of the past. I work to ensure that sectarian chanting is a thing of the past at Northern Ireland games. I abhor it.

8. Almost every team has an element of supporters who can let the other fans down on occassion. Northern Ireland fans are no different in this regard, although hard work has ensured that the atmosphere nowadays is something special.

9. Players from both major traditions in Northern Ireland are represented in our international teams at every level. They always were, and they always will be.

10. If you wish to discuss matters pertaining to the Northern Ireland international football team, I would respectfully suggest that you get your facts right before posting. Where you are inaccurate, expect to be challenged.

Goodbye.

Well at last you've come up with a post without resorting to name calling, happy days.

And I fully accept that the Windsor Park of 2day is different to that of yesteryear.

The only reason i mentioned Gary Fleming was in respone to a post claiming the only players to be abused by their own fans were Celtic Players.

I gave you the names of 2 games in late 80's early 90's that my uncle attended, and at one game the above player was abused by his own fans.

My unlces memory of which game was which may not be the best, but he or I am not a liar or in a bog of sectarianism.

[Not Brazil]

The only reason i mentioned Gary Fleming was in respone to a post claiming the only players to be abused by their own fans were Celtic Players.

I gave you the names of 2 games in late 80's early 90's that my uncle attended, and at one game the above player was abused by his own fans.

My unlces memory of which game was which may not be the best, but he or I am not a liar or in a bog of sectarianism.

What your uncle relates to you amounts to little more than hearsay.

You uncle's clarity on what he heard would need to be balanced with the fact that he didn't know who scored the winning goal at one of the games he attended. In fact, he volunteered inaccurate information on that count.

Gary Fleming may or may not have been abused by some folk in the vicinity of your uncle. What I can tell you without fear of contradiction is that there was no widespread abuse of Gary Fleming at any game I attended, including the 1992 game against Spain.

Gary Fleming was a good Northern Ireland servant, and put in some excellent performances - not least in the aforementioned 0-0 draw with Spain.

You seem to want to get embroiled in discussion about players' religious persuasions. I don't know why that is, but I certainly don't.

As I have said, I judge a footballer on his ability to play football, not on what Church he goes to.

[Krstic]

What your uncle relates to you amounts to little more than hearsay.

You uncle's clarity on what he heard would need to be balanced with the fact that he didn't know who scored the winning goal at one of the games he attended. In fact, he volunteered inaccurate information on that count.

Gary Fleming may or may not have been abused by some folk in the vicinity of your uncle. What I can tell you without fear of contradiction is that there was no widespread abuse of Gary Fleming at any game I attended, including the 1992 game against Spain.

Gary Fleming was a good Northern Ireland servant, and put in some excellent performances - not least in the aforementioned 0-0 draw with Spain.

You seem to want to get embroiled in discussion about players' religious persuasions. I don't know why that is, but I certainly don't.

As I have said, I judge a footballer on his ability to play football, not on what Church he goes to.

2 posts without name calling. I'm impressed, maybe you've seen the error of your ways.

But again you twist everything in order to paint me as a religious bigot, I've already pointed out to you why i mentioned Gary, it was in reply to a post about 'only Celtic players were abused, not that this is a good reason to abuse your own players.

Maybe if you want to debate football we can, until then keep your name calling and accusations to yourself or I will follow your lead and go crying to the powers that be.

[Not Brazil]

2 posts without name calling. I'm impressed, maybe you've seen the error of your ways.

But again you twist everything in order to paint me as a religious bigot, I've already pointed out to you why i mentioned Gary, it was in reply to a post about 'only Celtic players were abused, not that this is a good reason to abuse your own players.

Maybe if you want to debate football we can, until then keep your name calling and accusations to yourself or I will follow your lead and go crying to the powers that be.

I am always happy to debate football, but unfortunately this thread is only vaguely related to football.

When we are debating football, and in particular relating to the Northern Ireland team and it's supporters, I will challenge you and anyone else who posts inaccuracies. You can count on that.

Similarly, when someone labels me a bigot without one iota of evidence to suggest that that is the case, I will naturally appeal to the sound judgement of the forum moderators.

No doubt you are aware that the two players who left Derry last week claiming they were threatened are not the first black players to leave the city in "dubious" circumstances.

Wasn't there a player from Cameroon on trial at the Brandywell who made unfounded claims of racial abuse in the late 90's, that was subsequently threw out of court?

[Krstic]

Similarly, when someone labels me a bigot without one iota of evidence to suggest that that is the case, I will naturally appeal to the sound judgement of the forum moderators.

It's a pity you don't live by your own high standards.

No doubt you are aware that the two players who left Derry last week claiming they were threatened are not the first black players to leave the city in "dubious" circumstances.

Wasn't there a player from Cameroon on trial at the Brandywell who made unfounded claims of racial abuse in the late 90's, that was subsequently threw out of court?

If I remember correctly, the player in question took another player to court for assault, the other player was playing for Bangor but trained with Derry.
I'll PM you his name if you'd like and the circumstances, which involved a relationship with the Derry Born players sister.

[Not Brazil]

If I remember correctly, the player in question took another player to court for assault, the other player was playing for Bangor but trained with Derry.
I'll PM you his name if you'd like and the circumstances, which involved a relationship with the Derry Born players sister.

No need to go to any trouble. The guy was called Romauld Mindoukna.

The moral of the story is let's wait and see what transpires before jumping to conclusions about who was involved and why they were involved.