Threats of death force two soccer players to quit the North

[David]

Done above. Can't you wait 7mins for a response....? Some of us have other things to do with our lives rather than cling on your every word/command in cyberspace.....

Just to keep you posted on my movements - I'll be away from my PC for the the next few hours now. Don't be getting too upset if I don't respond back to you at the speed of light...

Show me one statement that I have made that could in any way be classed a bigotted. Is John Hume a bigot, is Tony Blair a bigot, is Bertie Ahern a bigot? All have had dealings with terrorists. Are Derry City supporters bigotted if they attend a game with Martin McGuiness? I do not share Mr Hutchinson's political viewpoint. I do however share his dedication to a football club and it is in that capacity that I was with him when we were, funnily enough, attending a football match.

I repeat my question, were the security firm the only ones involved in the security that night? Am I not correct in saying that this "security firm" is some sort of restorative justice thing? The same restorative justice programme that had open involvement from republican paramilitaries? There is no way that something like the operation could be mounted in the manner that it was that night in a working class republican area like the Brandywell without the assistance of Republican groups.

[Not Brazil]

Your rant about planters. Do you and David share libidos/logins or something....?

Please explain exactly how you deduce that I am a bigot from this statement:

"And sure aren't all of us planter types just immigrants anyway?"

Which, of course, was said tongue in cheek as it's something we are told regularly by republican types.

The cry of "bigot" seems to be something a lot of people use when they are losing a debate.

You had better sustantiate your allegation against me pretty speedily, or retract it.

I don't take to kindly to such insults.

I don't think I share anything with David, other than a love of Linfield Football Club.

[A face]

Moderation :

Lads this seems to be getting a bit heated and it seems to be descending somewhere which wont be good. If you want to debate something, then make your point sensibly and articulately. Do not attack the poster, attack the post if you have an argument to contest it, not liking a particular point of view is not reason enough to attack it.

Lads .... be sensible, be responsible for what you post and how it contributes to the debate. You opinion generally will be held in high regard and carry more weight if it is made in a proper manner.

There is a thread on the forum rules if anyone feels they need to read them.

[Krstic]

I repeat my question, were the security firm the only ones involved in the security that night? Am I not correct in saying that this "security firm" is some sort of restorative justice thing? The same restorative justice programme that had open involvement from republican paramilitaries? There is no way that something like the operation could be mounted in the manner that it was that night in a working class republican area like the Brandywell without the assistance of Republican groups.

No you're wrong in saying that the security firm are some sort of restoritive justice thing.

And amongst the other local community workers whom you 'Branded' were Tony O'Doherty a former Northern Ireland international, but then having played for northern Ireland at windsor he's probably well used to the abuse.

So can you name any of these Republican terrorists who were involved with the security at or around the Brandywell???

[Dassa]

but then having played for northern Ireland at windsor he's probably well used to the abuse.

totally uncalled for, there have ben a few problems down the years with NI fans but not a common thing. Can you name me a specific match that this said player was targeted by NI fans.

[Not Brazil]

And amongst the other local community workers whom you 'Branded' were Tony O'Doherty a former Northern Ireland international, but then having played for northern Ireland at windsor he's probably well used to the abuse.

It's that old let's screw up a perfectly valid point about the wrongs of labeling a whole group of people by , er, labeling a whole group of people routine.

Not very clever.

They sure make them lemons bitter in Derry.

[Not Brazil]

Moderation :

Lads this seems to be getting a bit heated and it seems to be descending somewhere which wont be good. If you want to debate something, then make your point sensibly and articulately. Do not attack the poster, attack the post if you have an argument to contest it, not liking a particular point of view is not reason enough to attack it.

Lads .... be sensible, be responsible for what you post and how it contributes to the debate. You opinion generally will be held in high regard and carry more weight if it is made in a proper manner.

There is a thread on the forum rules if anyone feels they need to read them.

A face,

I will not be accepting of anyone labeling me a bigot without one iota of evidence being produced to back that up.

I would respect it if you would see fit to have the offending and wholly unfounded accusation removed, or substantiated.

I ain't letting it drop until steve from Derry either puts up or shuts up.

It simply isn't good enough to allow posters to label people about whom they know little or nothing about, as bigots at a whim. Frankly, it demeans an excellent forum.

Many Thanks.

[Krstic]

It's that old let's screw up a perfectly valid point about the wrongs of labeling a whole group of people by , er, labeling a whole group of people routine.

Not very clever.

They sure make them lemons bitter in Derry.

Why's that Not Brazil, did Catholics playing for Northern Ireland not get abused by their own fans.

what was that song they had about Pat Jennings being the only good fenian???

I have haven't labelled anyone, I stated a fact, and everything I've posted on this thread has been fact.

However David has failed to follow up his accusations against a security firm and local community workers with one single fact or name.

So climb down off your high horse and have a lemon.

[Not Brazil]

Why's that Not Brazil, did Catholics playing for Northern Ireland not get abused by their own fans.

what was that song they had about Pat Jennings being the only good fenian???

I have haven't labelled anyone, I stated a fact, and everything I've posted on this thread has been fact.

However David has failed to follow up his accusations against a security firm and local community workers with one single fact or name.

So climb down off your high horse and have a lemon.

What Catholics were they chief?

I remember one or two Celtic players (Lennon and Rogan spring to mind) being abused by a small minority of fans, on account of them being Celtic players.

You're not labeling all Northern Ireland fans now, are you?

I've been going to Northern Ireland games for 35 years or so, and I never heard the Pat Jennings song to which you refer...please tell me more about it.

The funny thing is, throughout those 35 years, Catholics and Protestants have played happily alongside each other.

It's also nice to see some Derry City fans in attendance nowadays too.

As for your dispute with David, it's got nothing to do with me, so leave me out of it.

[Krstic]

There's only one good fenian and it's Pat.

Had to ring my Uncle and ask him as he attended Northern Ireland games in those days, also became a Coleraine follower as Derry were out of the league( Some people have their crosses to bare)

And don't even try to tell me I made that song up NotBrazil.

[Krstic]

My uncle just phoned me back and he asked me to point out to you, that he attended some Northern Ireland games in the late 80's early 90's and a favourite song then was 'If you hate Derry City clap your hands'

It was Against Spain and Uruguay.
Uruguay played you off the park but you beat them 1-0 with Alan McDonald scoring the goal.

Gary Fleming was playing and when he got the ball he was called a dirty fenian and fu ck off back to (london) Derry ya fenian Cu nt.
So there's a third for you to add to your Celtic list.
Funny you didn't mention Alan McKnight amongst the poor Celtic guy who were booed, wonder why???

[Not Brazil]

There's only one good fenian and it's Pat.

Had to ring my Uncle and ask him as he attended Northern Ireland games in those days, also became a Coleraine follower as Derry were out of the league( Some people have their crosses to bare)

And don't even try to tell me I made that song up NotBrazil.

Jeeezus, paranoia has set in.

I said I hadn't heard the song when I attended many games in which Pat played, and asked would you tell me about it.

I did not, am not, and will not suggest that you made it up.

Seems like a daft song, considering the other "fenians" (as you refer) that were on the same teams as Pat and who were also good (although not as good as Pat )

[Dassa]

I dont know how you have managed to turn this thread into "NI fans are bigots thread" No-one in NI going to deny that NI had a problem,which has been eradicated, but if it suits people to keep having digs and makes them feel good go for it but at least do it on a relevant thread so that those of us who have heard and seen enough sectarianism from both sides over the years to do them a life time can ignore it thanks.

It was very sad to see the two lads having to leave NI and one of them I can remember seeing play for Institute seemed quite talanted, hopefully he takes a way a better impression from NI than the last week he experienced.

[Not Brazil]

My uncle just phoned me back and he asked me to point out to you, that he attended some Northern Ireland games in the late 80's early 90's and a favourite song then was 'If you hate Derry City clap your hands'

It was Against Spain and Uruguay.
Uruguay played you off the park but you beat them 1-0 with Alan McDonald scoring the goal.

Gary Fleming was playing and when he got the ball he was called a dirty fenian and fu ck off back to (london) Derry ya fenian Cu nt.
So there's a third for you to add to your Celtic list.
Funny you didn't mention Alan McKnight amongst the poor Celtic guy who were booed, wonder why???

You may phone your uncle back and tell him he's an aul eejit.

The winner against Uruguay was scored by Kevin Wilson, not Alan McDonald.

I'm reliably informed that Kevin's relatives were not from darkest, deepest Sandy Row either...not that I give two flying ones what religion a player is.

PS: Never, ever remind me of Alan McKnightmare again. He is someone I have worked hard on eradicating from my memory bank.

PPS: I hadn't a clue what religion Gary Fleming was until you told me. It seems that you are a lot more concerned about these issues than me. I judge a footballer on his ability to play football, not on which strand of Christianity he may or may not practice.

You really need to get your head out of the bog of sectarianism that it currently seems to be obsessed with chief.

[Krstic]

You may phone your uncle back and tell him he's an aul eejit.

The winner against Uruguay was scored by Kevin Wilson, not Alan McDonald.

I'm reliably informed that Kevin's relatives were not from darkest, deepest Sandy Row either...not that I give two flying ones what religion a player is.

PS: Never, ever remind me of Alan McKnightmare again. He is someone I have worked hard on eradicating from my memory bank.

PPS: I hadn't a clue what religion Gary Fleming was until you told me. It seems that you are a lot more concerned about these issues than me. I judge a footballer on his ability to play football, not on which strand of Christianity he may or may not practice.

You really need to get your head out of the bog of sectarianism that it currently seems to be obsessed with chief.

What ever you think, as long as you recognise I'm the Chief.

[David]

I tell you what, without the proof I will retract the statement that there was paramilitary involvement in the security operation. I have not changed my mind on it and I still believe it to be the case but, as I said, without the proof I will not mention it again.

As for the songs mentioned. As someone who attended games throughout Pat's international career and stood on the Kop for the vast majority of them, I never recall hearing such songs (any proof ). The only players I ever recall getting abuse were those with Celtic connections, indeed Neil Lennon had never a problem when he was with Leicester. That is in no way justifying that abuse, just stating it like it is. I actually am not totally correct I also recall one or two players with Glentoran connections taking stick because of the large Linfield contingent in the support. As for Big Pat, the guy was my hero and I still believe he was the best keeper in the world then and since. The guy was idolised from the Kop but maybe that does not fit certain peoples stereotypes.

[Krstic]

I tell you what, without the proof I will retract the statement that there was paramilitary involvement in the security operation. I have not changed my mind on it and I still believe it to be the case but, as I said, without the proof I will not mention it again.

As for the songs mentioned. As someone who attended games throughout Pat's international career and stood on the Kop for the vast majority of them, I never recall hearing such songs (any proof ). The only players I ever recall getting abuse were those with Celtic connections, indeed Neil Lennon had never a problem when he was with Leicester. That is in no way justifying that abuse, just stating it like it is. I actually am not totally correct I also recall one or two players with Glentoran connections taking stick because of the large Linfield contingent in the support. As for Big Pat, the guy was my hero and I still believe he was the best keeper in the world then and since. The guy was idolised from the Kop but maybe that does not fit certain peoples stereotypes.

Canny argue with your first paragraph david, so fair enough.
So you'll understand why i stand by my assertion that you are being hypocritical as i have not changed my mind on it.

As for only Celtic players being abused playing for Northern Ireland, as i cannot produce the proof to the contrary and in fact was not there myself I'll do likewise and give over.

And as for Not Brazil crying to the Mods about being called a Bigot by Steve, surely that's a bit rich when Not Brazil you decide to call me sectarian.

[David]

Canny argue with your first paragraph david, so fair enough.
So you'll understand why i stand by my assertion that you are being hypocritical as i have not changed my mind on it.

As for only Celtic players being abused playing for Northern Ireland, as i cannot produce the proof to the contrary and in fact was not there myself I'll do likewise and give over.

And as for Not Brazil crying to the Mods about being called a Bigot by Steve, surely that's a bit rich when Not Brazil you decide to call me sectarian.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Not Brazil can speak for himself but I am sure, like me, he was genuinely offended by the bigot accusation. I have worked damn hard, along with others, to eradicate sectarian crap from Linfield. I abhor sectarainism and bigotry and have many friends of both and neither religion. What religion they are does not matter one bit to me. Likewise with the players that play for Linfield. The SC I am in is based on the Shankill Road and we have always made all players welcome at our club functions. Indeed, if the truth be told, we go that we bit further for the Catholic players to make them feel at ease to enable them to enjoy themselves so forgive me if I get a little upset at being accused of bigotry please.

[Krstic]

I have no doubt whatsoever that Not Brazil can speak for himself but I am sure, like me, he was genuinely offended by the bigot accusation. I have worked damn hard, along with others, to eradicate sectarian crap from Linfield. I abhor sectarainism and bigotry and have many friends of both and neither religion. What religion they are does not matter one bit to me. Likewise with the players that play for Linfield. The SC I am in is based on the Shankill Road and we have always made all players welcome at our club functions. Indeed, if the truth be told, we go that we bit further for the Catholic players to make them feel at ease to enable them to enjoy themselves so forgive me if I get a little upset at being accused of bigotry please.

Again fair enough, but it wasn't me who called you or NotBrazil a bigot.

And maybe you'll agree that it's a bit rich to cry to mods about name calling and then jump on the bandwagon.
Which is what NotBrazil has done.

But anyway I think we've done this one to death and no doubt others are well bored of us Northerners with our 'he said she said'

So we'll get back to the football.

[David]

Again fair enough, but it wasn't me who called you or NotBrazil a bigot.

And maybe you'll agree that it's a bit rich to cry to mods about name calling and then jump on the bandwagon.
Which is what NotBrazil has done.

But anyway I think we've done this one to death and no doubt others are well bored of us Northerners with our 'he said she said'

So we'll get back to the football.

Now that I can certainly live with.