Quotemost pundits reckon italy are a mess going into the tournament. holland and portugal are by far the more impressive sides in europe altho they are perennial flakers....
My money is on Italy at 10/1 but it will be very tough. They could have the following draw:
2nd round: Japan
QF: France
SF: Germany/Holland
F: Brazil
That is very tough. Japan would be my outside bet to reach the final at 110/1 (Betfair). France are still very strong as are Holland/Germany (at home). If Italy fail to win their group they'd most likely face Brazil in the 2nd round.
In saying that, Italy are probably the best team in Europe atm. They beat us in Lansdowne and beat Holland very comfortably in Amsterdam. They also destroyed Germany in their last match.
most pundits reckon italy are a mess going into the tournament. holland and portugal are by far the more impressive sides in europe altho they are perennial flakers....
In what way? I've seen them a few times in the last few months and they were brilliant. The good thing about them is most of their team play for Milan and Juve so are used to playing with each other.Originally Posted by klein4
Buffon - Juve
Cannavaro - Juve
Nesta - Milan
Zambrotta - Juve
Grosso - Palermo
Pirlo - Milan
Gatusso - Milan
Camoranesi - Juve
Totti - Roma
Luca Toni - Fiorentina
Gilardino - Milan / Inzaghi - Milan / Del Piero - Juve
If Totti plays like close to his best Italy will be in with a great chance.
Reading this its obvous we are all hoping that if we dont mention England they'll go away.
Looking at their players they are solid in all positions and in Terry, Gerrard and Owen have 3 class players.
Obviously Rooney's injury is a relief for us all (and arent you glad he didnt declare for us now, just think fo the disappointment) but the danger is it forces Erickson into a winning formula (just as Uncle Booby fell into a good formation in 1990).
I'd worry about playing any team with a solid defence and carrick sitting in behind Lampard and Gerrard with Owen up front. Remember France won in 98 without any strikers.
The thing about the world Cup is how little football is required to win. Assume England make it out of their latest easy group. They then need to win 4 games.
This probably means Poland, Portugal, Argentina, Brazil.
All agree they win the first one. Portugal have a few good players but only beat Enlgand on pens when playing at home last time. Have to say my money would be strongly on England.
Christ, now they are in the semis, I can just foresee Terry heading in from a corner and then they will defend for the rest fo the game. Suddenyl its the final and I think then we throw away our TV's!
Someone tell me it cant happen
What about Uruguay in 1930, Italy in 1934, England in 1966, West Germany in 1974, Argentina in 1978 and France in 1998? Coupled with that, Brazil were second in Brazil in 1950, Sweden were second in Sweden in 1958, Chile were 3rd in Chile in 1962, Italy were 3rd in Italy in 1990 and South Korea were 4th in South Korea in 2002. Only in 1938, 1954, 1970, 1986 and 1994 did a host nation fail to get as far as the semis. Even the teams involved there include Switzerland, Mexico and USA.
Last edited by Poor Student; 02/05/2006 at 3:59 PM.
He played for the reserves last week and will probably start against Inter in the cup final this week.
Well having seen them play in the last qualifying campaign and in the European Championships I don't know how they're 2nd favourites. The only time they played well (Argentina, Poland, Colombia, USA) was when they played a holding midfielder. When they don't play one the opposition always dominates possession whether it's Azerbaijan or Portugal. With Rooney injured maybe they'll play a 4-5-1 which could suit them. If they don't play a holding midfielder though they have absolutely no chance of doing well at the World cup. I think Sven has finally copped on and will play Carrick but Rooney seems to be the only player that actually plays consistantly well for them.
Last edited by eirebhoy; 02/05/2006 at 4:36 PM.
I remember all the english pundits were sinmging Ledley King's praises after he played well in one game for them in that position. He is a really good player in that position.
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I think the game you mean was at home to Poland. The likes of Hansen & co. are very astute. They let the public hear what they like to hear a lot of the time: just witness the glorification of Rio Ferdinand & Nicky Butt in WC02. In fairness to King, he did do well in that match but at home to Poland in a dead-rubber is a different proposition to playing a classier team in a WC QF. Personally I prefer Carrick as his ball use is far superior & he's capable of dictating a game's tempo. But again, is he up to it at the level required? He ran the show against Arsenal at WHL (the first game) in the first half but as Arsenal got back into it he got careless and was overrun near the end. Likewise at Highbury, he started brilliantly but lost influence massively as Arsenal picked their game up (admittedly against 10 men). I'm not convinced Carrick is good enough for when push comes to the shove.
The English have got to learn to stop patting themselves on the back for achieving what they SHOULD achieve (i.e., minimum last 16, probably last 8) and only start pouring acclaim on their players once they really start doing the business - if they can.
I'm a bit torn on England's chances. I do agree that Rooney's absence could force Sven into reshaping the side for the better. I also think they have match winners in Lampard, Beckham & Terry due to their set piece threat. Crouch too in that context. And a bit like their rugby counterparts in 2003 I think their sheer desire to win & conviction that they can do it may get them further than usual.
However, my overriding sense is that they'll suffer without Rooney & because Owen will only be half fit. I just can't see them being capable of playing well against the very best. Usual failings like ball retention, defending too deeply etc. will see them go out.
Yeah i wouldnt be surprised if they do. THey probably have the best defence anyway
i fancy holland
I think it's going to be between Brazil, England and Argentina, with England to beat the Argies in the final. Germany will waltz through their group but will lose to Argentina in the QF. Holland will disapoint and finishBOTTOM of their group. The surprise teams of this years competiton will be Australia and Ivory Coast, both reaching the QF maybe.
Italy aren't a mess going into the tournament at all. They beat Holland 3-1 in an Amsterdam friendly in February and in March beat Germany 4-1 in Italy in a friendly. Ok, so friendlies are only friendlies, but those results hardly suggest that they're in a mess.
With Toni and Gilardino up front they have a formidable strike force and Lippi is one of the best managers in the game, and thankfully more attacking minded than Trapattoni, Zoff or Maldini were.
I predict an Italy/Holland -v- Brazil final with the winner of that semi final beating Brazil in the final.Those of you who follow the prediction league will now of course be racing out to put money on the afore mentioned teams
Italy are a mess. FACT. Expect them to be out by the 1/4 finals. possibly all ending in a big row.
Would you believe that even though I get €1,100 if Italy win the WC, it still won't even pay off my gambling debts.I've finally copped on that I have a gambling problem and if Italy win it'll probably/hopefully be the last time I take anything from the bookies.
Anyway, Luca Toni has become the first player ever to score 30 goals in Serie A so he's in fantastic form. Totti looks like he's back to full fitness at the right time. I think Totti is the key, he has to play as well as he plays for Roma.
A pal in Italy says they're in a mess, but didn't they win their last couple of friendlies convincingly?
I remember they beat Germany 4-1 or 4-2 but is that really a big achievment?
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Not bad for a team in a mess though. I'd take any win in Germany in September & think it was a great result.
I like this thread a lot of clear reasonable posts and not the over-the-top stuff we can all post when our own side is involved.
Here's what I think I may not add anything but I want to get it out of my system.
Brasil are favourites. There is a certain expectation that goes with this title you have to be the real deal or if things start to go wrong people can start to get panicy and for me there are too many problems, potential ones and questions that need to be answered before I would put money down on them. They did get it right in Japan, mainly because they had a good manager and time to experiment with an easy group. However to expect them to do so again is to much for me. Something will go wrong or not be there and they will get beaten. The talent is unquestioned but the unit has many questions. They wasted friendlies during the year by playing for money in the middle east and I feel that they are asking too much from themselves here.
Germany aren't quiet underdogs because we are too used to them being poor to come good. If I was a manager I would be expecting them to be decent but they lack the players and experience to make a real impression. Huth in defence is a major issue. Klinsman style is cavilier and I think that isn't really Germanys usual style and I don't believe they will see the semis.
England, I've posted at lenght on the other thread why I think they an average side with superb players.
Italy are unknow to me. I saw them at Lansdowne and was impressed. They were surprisingly sharp in attack but a touch more suspect in defence. I'll leave them for others to talk about because I don't know enough.
What I look for is a squad that is unified, organised, competant manager, structured in attack and experienced. Teams I've taken a liking too are Mexico, Netherlands and Argentina to name three. They are not perfect I and you can pick out problems quality, experiece and temperament. However as they are part of the pack and not out in front to be 'shot at' they have less pressure and can play more freely.
I also look for "the water-carrier". Every good side should have one but few do. History suggests that you won't win this trophy without one.
Argentina are my first pick. If Europe proves to be too difficult for outsiders I think the Netherlands will lift it.
A man is never really poor,
if he can still laugh.
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