Why Did Mick McCarthy Complain?

Steve · 13/06/2002, 8:54 AM

Why is Mick McCarthy now complaining about facilities in the new HQ in Seoul? Could it be that he has learned from his former captain and is finally getting the act together. Why isn't this 'whinging' or 'moaning'?

Too little too late?

Neil · 13/06/2002, 10:22 AM

Yawn

Grow up Steve. For a person who came on here a few days ago complaining about everyone in sight, you have certainly changed your tune.

**dahamsta** · 13/06/2002, 10:33 AM

Oh for gods sake! We're in the last 16 in the World Cup, we run the risk of being summarily booted home on Sunday, and this is all you can think of Steve?

adam

Steve · 13/06/2002, 11:41 AM

Changing tune

The problem is that I am worried about Ireland's prospects without a midfield. That is the central question about Sunday's match.

Everybody who knows the slightest jot about soccer knows that the midfield was missing totally against the Saudies, absent, not there. Yet, I'm supposed to grow up?? I cant believe this from a soccer forum.

The likes of Matt Holland (who I'd class as an extremely inneffectual midfielder with a good shot when its laid on perfectly) or Kinsella used to do well with Keane (the same way Babb used to do well with McGrath).

Spain will sweep Holland and Kinsella aside without noticing they were there.

That is exactly why Roy Keane should not have been kicked out (if its okay to mention him).

**Casegrande** · 13/06/2002, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Steve
The problem is that I am worried about Ireland's prospects without a midfield. That is the central question about Sunday's match.

What has that got to do with the training facilities!

The problem is you have a bee in your bonnet and everyone else is wrong except you!

ie.

I cant believe this from a soccer forum.

Everybody who knows the slightest jot about soccer

Did you not say in you original 'moan' that 'everyone is entitled to their opinion?

Support Ireland in the World Cup and leave your grievances for another day.

Steve · 13/06/2002, 12:04 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Casegrande
[B]

What has that got to do with the training facilities!

This.

The whole Keane saga is like a thorn in the foot of the world cup effort. I get annoyed with the apparent cosy concensus that doesn't allow any comparison. Many Keane-bashers said he was a whinger etc., to get on with the World Cup etc and stop complaning. McCarthy then goes ahead and its okay when a week before this cosy concensus was happy to beat Keane with this 'grow up', 'be happy' stuff, forget the facilities etc.

I suppose its obvious that Keane will be the most missed person in Ireland on SUnday. Thats what worries me.

On a positive note. We still have Duff, Given, Keane, Finnan, they'll have to have stormers on the day and I hope they do. I'll say no more.

Best Wishes to Ireland on Sunday!

citylove · 13/06/2002, 12:49 PM

The reason Mick is complaining about the facilities now is that they have a very important game coming up in a few days. The training facilities in Saipan was bad but in reality Saipan was meant to be relaxing time for the lads and to climitise to the hot conditions. Saipan was never going to be an excellent training facility, Japan and Korea was to be top class. As we know Japan was top class and Korea isn't, thats why Mick is moaning.

Keane had a total different argument, his main point was that they shouldn't have been relaxing but doing hard training in Saipan!

Steve · 13/06/2002, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by citylove

Keane had a total different argument, his main point was that they shouldn't have been relaxing but doing hard training in Saipan! [/B]

All the matches were important. We could have finished top of that group and avoided Spain at this stage. Mind you I thought South Africa were good(?).

Anyway, I'm trying to do what I'm told and move on from the Keane issues. Not so sure about the 'Gary Gary Breen' ones though?

**Schumi** · 13/06/2002, 2:59 PM

Originally posted by Steve
Everybody who knows the slightest jot about soccer knows that the midfield was missing totally against the Saudies, absent, not there.

The Saudi game bears no resemblence to Spain. Against Spain, the midfield will mostly have to disrupt the opposition whereas they were expected to create against Saudi. The Spanish game will show our midfield in a much better light than the Saudi game.

**patsh** · 13/06/2002, 3:33 PM

Originally posted by Schumi
The Saudi game bears no resemblence to Spain. Against Spain, the midfield will mostly have to disrupt the opposition whereas they were expected to create against Saudi. The Spanish game will show our midfield in a much better light than the Saudi game.

Isn't this a contradiction?

A "good" midfield should be creative and combatative.
Kinsella and Holland are very good at what they do, but that in itself is our limitation.
They are essentially destructive players and are found out when creativity is needed.
Our central midfield is a choice of 2 from Kinsella, Holland or Carsley. I'm not being dismissive of them, but I cannot see any team winning a major championship with that choice.
I am not trying to resurrect any arguments, but from a purely football viewpoint it is undeniable that Roy Keane will be really missed now.

But what the hell,so far there has been far bigger shocks in this tournament that Ireland beating Spain (if you could really call that a shock!), so C'MON THE LADS!....

Neil · 13/06/2002, 3:37 PM

The Other Keane is hardly a 'creative' midfielder. Leave it out willya. 'Steve' is just trying to stir ye.

**Schumi** · 13/06/2002, 3:50 PM

Originally posted by Neil
The Other Keane is hardly a 'creative' midfielder. Leave it out willya. 'Steve' is just trying to stir ye.

We've always struggled to look good against $hit teams. It's not just now.

Steve · 13/06/2002, 4:46 PM

Originally posted by Neil
The Other Keane is hardly a 'creative' midfielder. Leave it out willya. 'Steve' is just trying to stir ye.

It's not entirely true that I'm trying to stir anyone (a little maybe) but my intentions were good. I'm leaving out the obvious this time.

I like Kinsella but I think that his day might be gone. I dont like Holland for various reasons but I'll keep that back as well. I think he is a very tame midfielder (he does try hard) but the unmentionable made him look better than he is.

Comparing games is not exactly true I think. The Saudies were poor and there was no sign of any midfield creative or combative (the plan seemed to be to have Staunton give long balls from the defense). Against Spain I think this might (I hope not) be even more obvious. I can see waves of Spanish attacks flooding the midfield area without any resistance.

Its so bad that I would prefer Carsley - I think he has more bite in tackles than the other two. If someone wants to tell me what Kinsella + Holland's contribution was, please do - and I'm serious, because I cant see it (and the media have gone way over the top with the praise).

**pete** · 14/06/2002, 10:38 AM

I cannot see any team winning a major championship with that choice.

Since when were Irealnd ever going to win the Woirld Cup? The team obviously go out to win every game but winning the whole competition?

You have to laugh at suggestions (not on this forum thankfully) that Roy Keane be flown back to Korea & put into the team & all be fine.

Roy Keane is/was our best player & irreplacable but he is not a creative midfielder. Its always easier to destroy than create.

Lets just get behind the team for the next game - pity people can't leave the Keane affair go.

btw McCarthy meerly changed the facilities as not happy with ones he given by FIFA. He also did not complain to FIFA as some sources are suggesting.

**patsh** · 14/06/2002, 2:48 PM

Originally posted by pete
Since when were Irealnd ever going to win the Woirld Cup? The team obviously go out to win every game but winning the whole competition?

Sorry Pete, I didn't realise that we entered tournaments just to take part, so the answer is obviously never.
I was always under the impression that we went to try and win.
Isn't it time we started thinking about winning, no matter how unlikely.........

**pete** · 14/06/2002, 3:01 PM

Originally posted by oddboy
Isn't it time we started thinking about winning, no matter how unlikely.........

Bit of difference between thinking about & expecting yourself to win. Look where they got Portugal, France, Argentina & Cameroon!

The FAI have falied to realise the WC isn't the only reason for them existing but meerly a means by which they can boost the other levels of football under their control.

Steve · 14/06/2002, 3:25 PM

Originally posted by oddboy

Isn't it time we started thinking about winning, no matter how unlikely.........

I recall a certain 'forgotten about' midfielder trying to rubbish all this 'ah we're Irish, its all a laugh to us' attitude. That is complete nonsense. How could any player go on any field thinking that he (or she) is not going to win, doesn't want to win or was never really going to win anyway. How could any team in the last 16 of the world go on the field thinking that?? They are only three games away from it for Gods sake. Korea certainly ditn't think like that.

I was trying to sort out my Keane issues but Keane may not be 'creative' in the Figo way but where are Portugal now?? Where are France? Where are Argentina? Keane is more useful than those 'silky' skilled players. Creative means more than the 'bend it like Beckam' brigade.

Kinsella and Holland are neither creative nor 'destructive'? They are meek.

Neil · 14/06/2002, 3:30 PM

Originally posted by Steve
Kinsella and Holland are neither creative nor 'destructive'? They are meek.

They certainly are not 'meek'. They definitley are 'loyal' and 'proud'.

Steve · 14/06/2002, 3:39 PM

Originally posted by Neil

They certainly are not 'meek'. They definitley are 'loyal' and 'proud'.

Neil, they may well be loyal and proud (if you overlook Holland's 'my dream is to play for England') and I think they are and that they do their best. I also pray that that will be good enough on Sunday to put Spain out.

Apart from the WC at all or any of the Keane type issues I think there are questions about their quality. In spite of all the press hype I cant see that they have, in fact, looked all that strong creatively or defensively.

Hope I am wrong and that I get indigestion eating my words. No-one has yet tried to outline their qualities?