How to 'fix' the Irish Health Service

**pete** · 07/04/2006, 11:38 AM

Seems like the elected politicians haven't a clue. Anyone got any bright ideas?

Do we pour in good money after bad or restructure? Will the public accept change? Have the politicians got the confidence to pull it off?

**Macy** · 07/04/2006, 12:02 PM

Make it cast iron responsibility of the Minister of Health. No passing the buck to whatever quango is appointed.

Increase state investment in convalescence care, which would free up hundreds of hospital beds

Ban tax breaks for Private Hospitals and ban PPP for Health (well everything) as both cost the state for no return. Invest this in getting already completed beds open and wards running.

**dahamsta** · 07/04/2006, 12:09 PM

Next Week: How to nail Jelly to the ceiling.

**Aberdonian Stu** · 07/04/2006, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Next Week: How to nail Jelly to the ceiling.

To quote Stanley Kubrick "You can if you freeze it."

That line was originally used, allegedly, in a conversation between himself and the editor of the Shining. The story goes Kubrick wanted to make all sorts of changes and cuts and what have you until eventually the editor responded "Sir, you can not polish a turd." The above quote was Kubrick's response.

**beautifulrock** · 07/04/2006, 1:24 PM

Cant tell you how to fix it but if you want the perfect example of what not to do, then refer to the NHS in the UK...

**pete** · 07/04/2006, 1:35 PM

The NHS seems to be quiet a different model to Ireland as its a free service to all with only small percentage of people with private insurance.

In Ireland we have a mix of both system with more people on private insurance but the state subsidises maybe 70% of the cost.

AFAIK Germany has a public health service but people pay for it through levy on their wages. The more you earn the more you pay but everyone gets the same service. I think people on high wages don't use this & have to pay for their own or something...

I suppose the NHS similar to euro model except not as much money spent on it?

Irish people will most likely not pay for the french/german model. Politicians will continue to tell us they will create a world class health service with no additional taxes...

**dahamsta** · 07/04/2006, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by Aberdonian Stu

To quote Stanley Kubrick "You can if you freeze it."

Hmmm, the frozen jelly in Wibbly Wobbly Wonders is actually quite nice. Interesting.

(I got the jelly-nailing line from a very, very old Graffiti book - search amazon for "graffiti rees", I think it was the second volume - which asked much the same type of question of whatever government was in power in the UK at the time. EDIT: Here we go. "How Labour will cope", apparently. Isn't Google the tits?)

**dcfcsteve** · 07/04/2006, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by beautifulrock

Cant tell you how to fix it but if you want the perfect example of what not to do, then refer to the NHS in the UK...

Conversely - the NHS is a widely admired system of health provision.

It has consistently provided free health care throughout it's long history. Few other countries have a sytem so all encompassing, so consistent, or so long-lasting.

Sure - the NHS has bucket loads of problems. But that's unsurprising when you're trying to provide free healthcare to 60m people under a political climate that for 3 decades has trained people to expect tax cuts and reject tax rises. The NHS is actually improving year-on-year at the moment anyway. Waiting lists are down, more bed spaces are available etc - though there are still huge problems in areas such as dentistry.

I'd rather the NHS than the half-arsed system that exists in the republic.

**dahamsta** · 07/04/2006, 2:03 PM

They both have their faults, but it would appear that the NHS is in far better shape than the Irish health service. A lot of the criticism of the NHS is media overemphasis. If anything, the opposite is true in Ireland, the health service probably deserves more attention from Irish media. But of course they have "non nationals" to talk about...

**drinkfeckarse** · 07/04/2006, 3:12 PM

[QUOTE=dahamsta]Hmmm, the frozen jelly in Wibbly Wobbly Wonders is actually quite nice. Interesting.
QUOTE]

I miss Wibbly Wonder Wonders....

**Dodge** · 07/04/2006, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

the health service probably deserves more attention from Irish media. But of course they have "non nationals" to talk about...

Who funnily enough, keep the Irish health service going.

**beautifulrock** · 07/04/2006, 3:59 PM

Sorry have to disagree that the NHS is working well. I live in the UK close to two hospitals and used to work across the road from another so meet a lot of people who work for the NHS and they all tell me the same that it is hanging on by a string. MRSA and the control of it is a good example. Up to 6/7 years ago all workers in a hospital were tested to see if they were infected, if this was positive they were treated for it, sent home and not allowed back until it cleared. However, within a short period of time it was decided that they were sending home too many workers so they ceased testing. Now we know what the situation is with MRSA.

**dcfcsteve** · 07/04/2006, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by beautifulrock

Sorry have to disagree that the NHS is working well. I live in the UK close to two hospitals and used to work across the road from another so meet a lot of people who work for the NHS and they all tell me the same that it is hanging on by a string. MRSA and the control of it is a good example. Up to 6/7 years ago all workers in a hospital were tested to see if they were infected, if this was positive they were treated for it, sent home and not allowed back until it cleared. However, within a short period of time it was decided that they were sending home too many workers so they ceased testing. Now we know what the situation is with MRSA.

I wouldn't say the NHS is working well. But it is working, and it is improving slowly with time. I also live in the UK - on the doorstep of one hospital, and very close to 2 more. I am also involved in local government - including the local NHS primary care trust. On many of the measures on which it is assessed, the NHS has been improving. Sure - it's got miles to go yet, and there are some horro stories that it can be pulled up on. Such as MRSA. But that doesn't prevent the overall picture of being one of slow improvement.

On a side note - I remember as a kid being ill on a trip down to my cousins in the Republic, and being amazed at the concept that my parents had to pay to get medicine from the doctor for me. That's something that has stuck with me to this day. I know that nowadays the NHS means-tests those who should and shouldn't pay, but the Irish system is much less about universal healthcare, free at the point of access than the NHS is.

**beautifulrock** · 07/04/2006, 4:25 PM

Steve fair comment and there is no doubt that the emergency service provided by the NHS is close to top of class in the world. However, outside the emergency arena it struggles. You are in a far better position than me to judge how it is improving. But I still get the nagging feeling we (the UK tax payer) is pouring good money after bad and what we need is a complete overhaul of the system. However therin lies the crux. No govenrment wants to be seen as the party that "closed" the NHS.