DC at Casement?

[Bald Student]

That said, they'll probably go on and win the bloody thing again now....

That's how I judge things anyway. It's currently 1 - 0 to the IL.

[David]

You think a "substantial" number of players and supporters wiould be lost to the IL if you did play on a Sunday ? Really ?? So these people are to be found in the church on a Sunday - not engaging in any other activities such as shopping, family outings, or watching Rangers play in a pub (or even travelling to see English/Scottish football on a Sunday ) ??

Numerous players have stated that they would have a problem playing on a Sunday. Michael Halliday being one, Nathan McConnell another due to their religious beliefs. I know of numerous supporters that would feel the same due to their religious beliefs and also one member of the Linfield Management Committee. All these people would frequent church on a Sunday. Why should their beliefs be ignored for what would be a purely cosmetic lifting of a rule.

[dcfcsteve]

Why should their beliefs be ignored for what would be a purely cosmetic lifting of a rule.

Conversely - why should their faiths, the faith of a minority, dictate the rules for everone else ? Tell me that ?? This is a secular society, ffs ! Why can Irish league football not live by secular rules as well ??

What happens if a couple of Isreali's join the IL - would we then have to stop playing between sunset on Friday and sunset on a Saturday to soothe their religious beliefs ? Why are the beliefs of one religion being held higher than any or all others here ??

How do you know that no IL teams would play on a Sunday if they could ?

And I'm glad you consider equality to be "cosmetic". I prefer to call it 'doing the right thing....'

As for players having an issue with playing on a Sunday - I'm sure that's as much, if not more, to do with amateur players cherishing their free time. I'm sure that, before the advent of Sky and games almost every day of the week, if English players had been asked would they want to have games on different days of the week, with all days up for grabs, many of them would've been against it.

Time to drag the Irish league out of the Jurassic age on this one. I can't believe you even have the nerve to defend something as indefensible as a clearly sectarian rule. Shame....

[David]

Conversely - why should their faiths, the faith of a minority, dictate the rules for everone else ? Tell me that ?? This is a secular society, ffs ! Why can Irish league football not live by secular rules as well ??

What happens if a couple of Isreali's join the IL - would we then have to stop playing between sunset on Friday and sunset on a Saturday to soothe their religious beliefs ? Why are the beliefs of one religion being held higher than any or all others here ??

How do you know that no IL teams would play on a Sunday if they could ?

And I'm glad you consider equality to be "cosmetic". I prefer to call it 'doing the right thing....'

As for players having an issue with playing on a Sunday - I'm sure that's as much, if not more, to do with amateur players cherishing their free time. I'm sure that, before the advent of Sky and games almost every day of the week, if English players had been asked would they want to have games on different days of the week, with all days up for grabs, many of them would've been against it.

Time to drag the Irish league out of the Jurassic age on this one. I can't believe you even have the nerve to defend something as indefensible as a clearly sectarian rule. Shame....

I am not an overly religious person, although I certainly do have my beliefs and my belief is that if you go by the Bible, playing football on a Sunday is wrong, it goes against the Ten Commandments. Northern Ireland is essentially a Christian country and whilst the majority would not be church goers, the majority would profess Christian beliefs. Nobody would bat an eyelid when going to a Muslim country at having to adhere to Muslim beliefs, why should this be any different.

Regardless of the religious aspect to it, the reason I believe that any change would be cosmetic is that no club in their right mind would play football on a Sunday from a business point of view. Take tomorrow as an example, at 1130 there is Chelsea v West Ham at 1400 there is Liverpool v Bolton and at 1600 there is Man Utd v Arsenal, all live on Sky Sports. Ards and Dungannon Swifts going against that would really have the crowds flocking in wouldn't it?

[gspain]

There is no chance of DC getting Casement Park. Antrim GAA have a record of being the most hardline bigots of the lot on this island - (impossible as it may be to believe even worse than Cork GAA). They voted against lifting the ban, against lifting the ban on Northern Ireland policemen playing GAA and agaisnt opening up Croke Park to "foreign games". There is no chance DC will be allowed into Casement Park. It is strictly reserved for IRA rallies and GAA games.

[Lux Interior]

I am not an overly religious person, although I certainly do have my beliefs and my belief is that if you go by the Bible, playing football on a Sunday is wrong, it goes against the Ten Commandments. Northern Ireland is essentially a Christian country and whilst the majority would not be church goers, the majority would profess Christian beliefs.

Sorry, david. Following that logic, we'd have to close shops, shut down TV transmissions and not wash the car, since the 'seventh day was set aside for relaxing', was it not?

The rule is archaic and whilst I respect the likes of Halliday and McConnell (not to mention Jameson at WC 1982) to abstain from playing, the IL is being inconsistent with society in enforcing this ruling.

The rule, however, effects those of ALL faiths, unlike, say, Rule 42 which was a direct two fingers to 'the English'.

[Not Brazil]

Blah, blah, blah - yeddah, yeddah, yeddah. Good for you.

Our failure to qualify from the group had everything to do with us not taking Glentoran seriously 7 days after we whalloped them 3:1, and nothing to do with Linfield's rather unconvincing performances against us.

Actually, it had to with the fact that you finished third and only two teams qualified from the group. Linfield qualified because they finished top of the group.

Regarding the stupid "Never on a Sunday Rule", I see the IFA will turn a blind eye to it during the forthcoming USA tour... there's money involved, you see.

In a league that is struggling to survive, clubs should have choice. Removing the rule does not mean that Clubs have to play on a Sunday, but it gives them the choice to, if it suits.

By the way, if a sport choices to play it's games almost all on a Sunday, does that mean it is discriminating against fundamentalists?

[Dassa]

In my opinion if two clubs in NI want to play on a sunday and they can agree,then it is only fair to let them. It would certainly remove the current problem of people not being able to go to matches due to junior football.

[hamish]

Just reminds me of the Lord's Day Observance Society and their fury when footie started to be played on a Sunday - did that happen in the 60s or 70s?? Have a vague memory of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Day_Observance_Society

"In America, at least, it is common to skip church to watch football, a common form of Sabbath breaking. Simply enjoying the day ]in a non-religious form can also be considered Sabbath breaking".

[David]

Sorry, david. Following that logic, we'd have to close shops, shut down TV transmissions and not wash the car, since the 'seventh day was set aside for relaxing', was it not?

The rule is archaic and whilst I respect the likes of Halliday and McConnell (not to mention Jameson at WC 1982) to abstain from playing, the IL is being inconsistent with society in enforcing this ruling.

The rule, however, effects those of ALL faiths, unlike, say, Rule 42 which was a direct two fingers to 'the English'.

If the rule is changed, do you see clubs playing on a Sunday?

[dcfcsteve]

If the rule is changed, do you see clubs playing on a Sunday?

That's not the point. And under the current rules, we'll never know will we !

The Saudi Arabian authorities could argue that the majority of women in their country wouldn't vote if given the chance, but they'd be laughed at if they presented that as a justifiable reason for not extending the franchise to women. The same principle holds here.

The right thing is the right thing - regardless of whether you personally perceive or predict it to be 'cosmetic'.

[Lux Interior]

If the rule is changed, do you see clubs playing on a Sunday?

I dunno, but that's not the point.

I'm surprised at your stance here, given your forward views on an all-Ireland league

[David]

I dunno, but that's not the point.

I'm surprised at your stance here, given your forward views on an all-Ireland league

I personally have no problem with football on a Sunday but I can respect the views of those that do and understand those views and I detest the way it is used as a stick to beat us with when I don't see anyone utilising it if the rule is changed. I also do not see that as being at odds with an AIL as very few clubs in EL play on a Sunday (if any, I am sure others know better than me). They have realised that playing on a Sunday is madness as it is going against the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd on television. Yet here we have people fighting to remove a rule even though they are unlikely to change anything if the rule is removed. It doesn't matter that much to me personally but it does annoy me people making such a big deal out of something that I class as irrelevant.

[Dassa]

On UTV sport tonight that Floodlights have been installed at casement, No connection to DC but if something was worked out between AGAA and DC least the floodlights would be in place.

[Dassa]

Sunday Life Home > Sport

Football: Celtic, Linfield & Gerry Adams
Chairman Raymond Bonnar on DC past, present and future

By Alex McGreevy
23 April 2006

RAYMOND Bonnar, the man who has played for, managed, and currently chairs west-Belfast side Donegal Celtic, has confidently claimed the club will "be much bigger" than Linfield and Glentoran when it eventually gains promotion to the Irish Premier League.

Just two games - the promotion play-offs - stand between Donegal Celtic and the beginning of a new era for the First Division outfit that hasn't had to seek its troubles since it was founded in the early '70s.

Bonnar has watched his club suffer similar injustices experienced by Derry City and Belfast Celtic and has even faced down hardline republicans determined, and eventually successful, in their aim to see that Celtic never made history in an Irish Cup tie with the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

As Celtic prepare for the biggest games in the club's short history, Bonnar said: "We stand on the edge of something so big the thought of it is frightening.

"Donegal Celtic, with promotion to the Irish Premier League, will be huge.

"Do I think we can match Linfield and Glentoran on and off the pitch? No, I believe we'll be much bigger than the both of them."

A two-time Steel and Sons Cup winner with Brantwood, Bonnar has watched his club emerge from Sunday League football to dominate the old Dunmurry and District League.

He was there as the Hoops progressed into the Intermediate League and controlled it for over a decade - and at the expense of clubs like Institute, a possible opponent in the forthcoming play-offs.

Five years ago, as a court case to challenge the Irish Football League's continuous rebuttals of Celtic's applications to join the senior ranks loomed, the Suffolk Road club was granted entry to a new-look First Division.

After just three seasons in the Irish League, Celtic players are on the verge of realising three decades of effort before them.

"It's as simple as this, if Donegal Celtic is allowed to prosper, it will become one of the biggest clubs in Ireland and the UK," added Bonnar.

"The potential we have for a core support from west Belfast alone is enormous.

"It's a matter of getting into the Premier League to unearth it.

"It's the appeal of the Celtic name and tradition that will see us grow.

"We will always be looking to expand, be that with Glasgow Celtic, with Irish America, whoever, there are ample markets out there for us.

"I'm not saying we will jump up and run away with things.

"We have waited 20-odd years for this moment and we are prepared to wait a few more before we really challenge the top teams.

"We're not going to splash out on 'top quality' players in our first year because we simply don't have the money at hand.

"Money aside, we do have something that Linfield and Glentoran have - pulling power.

"Talented players want to play for the Blues and the Glens and there are many who will want to wear the Celtic shirt.

"That puts us in a position to select the best from whoever knocks on our door.

"The Celtic appeal will give us a head start over most other Irish League clubs."

Bonnar managed Celtic in a number of contentious games, most notably in the Irish Cup. He was in charge during the infamous tie against Linfield at Windsor Park, where three spectators were struck by plastic bullets during riots and one Celtic player, Brendan Tully, a descendant of Glasgow Celtic great Charlie Tully, was attacked by a Linfield supporter.

The scenes revived the shocking memories of the venue's 'Jimmy Jones incident', when the Belfast Celtic striker was attacked by trouble-makers and had his leg broken.

That dark day in the game led to Belfast Celtic's 1949 withdrawal from the Irish League.

Bonnar was also manager when Celtic earned an Irish Cup replay with Roy Coyle's Ards in the early 90s, only to have the replay returned to Castlereagh Park. In response, Bonnar pulled Celtic out of the Irish Cup.

In the late-90s he went head-to-head with Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams in a dispute that was fuelled by the club's members voting in favour of playing in an Irish Cup tie against the RUC.

But the father of two, whose son Andrew currently plays for Donegal Celtic, is adamant Northern Ireland's football stadiums, and in particular Celtic Park, will not be hit by The Troubles again.

"We have been through a lot over the years but we have come back stronger on every occasion.

"There are people who would have loved to have seen us close down in the 70s, the 80s and the 90s. I believe efforts have been made to make life hard for us but we will never lie down," he added.

"All I want is for Donegal Celtic to achieve sporting excellence for the people of west Belfast. We haven't had that in football since 1949. We're not in for the money. We are in it to provide top quality, full-time football and entertainment for everyone.

"A few years back we believed that we had a right to represent west Belfast in the Irish Cup game against the RUC. We felt that footballers should have been given the opportunity to show their skill and take the chance to make history in our biggest cup competition.

"Outside pressure made us withdraw. The first time we drew the RUC in the Irish Cup we knew there was no way the game would be played because the climate was not right.

"The second time we drew them in a cup competition we were hopeful that the progress made in the political arena would be reflected in sport, but it wasn't to be.

"The experience of having players and members put under intense pressure had to be addressed - that's when Gerry Adams came to the club to talk to us.

"Truth be told, he didn't want us to play the RUC but he respected the determination of the members who had voted to go ahead with the game.

"Let's be honest, there's a hardline element running areas surrounding most Irish League clubs but we are living in good times now and I believe even influential people outside football would like to see sport helping us all build a better place to live in.

"Realistically, the PSNI is still not an acceptable police force in west Belfast, so if ever we come up against them again, we will call on the lessons learned from the past.

"The people who participate in Donegal Celtic and those who support it in the community will have their say but it's good to know that for the past couple of years Lurgan Celtic have been playing against the PSNI without any concerns."

On many occasions, Celtic officials have been advised to change the club's name, identity and its location at the foot of Black Mountain.

Bonnar added: "We will never change our name - never.

"I remember being introduced to a lot of Belfast Celtic legends by the great Jimmy McAlinden, who said to them, 'this is the man who is going to bring Belfast Celtic back to the Irish League'.

"I had to stop him in his tracks and say, 'No, Mr McAlinden, I'm the man who will bring Donegal Celtic to the Irish League'.

"No disrespect to Belfast Celtic but we are Donegal Celtic.

"We will not change our name or our identity for anyone.

"We want to achieve Belfast Celtic's greatness but we will do it as Donegal Celtic."

[David]

The guy must be a fool. I do think they can become a big club potentially but one of the biggest in the UK? What is he on?

[sonofstan]

Do DC have any support to speak of at the moment?

[David]

Do DC have any support to speak of at the moment?

No, not really. I was up at their place last season when our reserves played them and our first team game was called off and they would be lucky having 100 supporters. I accept totally that there is massive potential there, personally I do not think they will ever be as big as Linfield but can see the possibility of them becoming bigger than the Glens, although I doubt that as well but to say they will be one of the biggest clubs in UK is certifiable madness.

[Speranza]

Disappointed to see the club wishing to cash in on the "Celtic name". His words suggest he sees the pulling power of the club in it's nationalist roots. Cliftonville already attempt the uber-taig show and that doesn't work so what makes him the same insular way of promoting a club would work here.

[Thunderblaster]

This never on a Sunday rule is really outdated. Was it originally brought in for the religious needs of the people of Northern Ireland? People should play and follow football at their own free will.