Islam (and the war in Iraq)

**dahamsta** · 13/04/2006, 2:53 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

Time to change to a different tack. What do we find on PlanetMuslim today, I wonder??

Ah, I see, yet another flimsy excuse for a scrap. Just a normal day out for them then.

Mypost, if I see another post along those lines here, you're not going to be able to post here any more. Don't argue with me about this, you won't win. Just resist the temptation to post something like that again, and we'll get along just fine.

**Dodge** · 13/04/2006, 7:44 AM

Always thought Powell was the smartest one there tbh.

Still do

**dahamsta** · 13/04/2006, 10:40 AM

Apart from Bush they're all pretty smart Dodge. You can be nutty and smart at the same time, as many posters on Foot.ie prove regularly.

**Dodge** · 13/04/2006, 10:46 AM

Less of the backchat or I'll have a face demote you...

Of course they're smart but I meant it in the sensible way rather than looney extremists

**dahamsta** · 13/04/2006, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Less of the backchat or I'll have a face demote you...

Actually, face can't. James probably could. [EDIT: But not any more!]

Of course they're smart but I meant it in the sensible way rather than looney extremists

Righty-ho. Rice isn't too bad either, but only in comparison to the loony-toon i-want-i-want-i-want hawks. The old doll reckons she'd make a good president; I think she's nuts. (The old doll that is. I'll reserve judgement on Condi. Having an oil tanker named after you can't be good foryour mental health.)

**Dodge** · 13/04/2006, 2:51 PM

Yeah, poor deluded woman thinking there's ever going to be a woman president, never mind a black woman president, never mind a black woman president with a hispanic firstname, never mind a black woman with a hispanis firstname and a staple of the asian diet for a surname.

**dahamsta** · 13/04/2006, 2:59 PM

That's the thing Dodge, you can actually see a large percentage of Americans voting for her for all those reasons. You know, because Fox/God/George told them too? Not a majority though. Sure who needs majorities?

**hamish** · 13/04/2006, 7:05 PM

Some more news on Iraq/Al Qaeda etc

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/14328188.htm

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/200...qaeda_myth.php

**dahamsta** · 13/04/2006, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by sirhamish

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/200...qaeda_myth.php

Although I'm not surprised, I genuinely did not know that. I'd wonder how many people do. Worth linking to his source material, since he's a relative unknown:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...750139,00.html

The official inquiry into the 7 July London bombings will say the attack was planned on a shoestring budget from information on the internet, that there was no 'fifth-bomber' and no direct support from al-Qaeda

(Yes, it's the Observer, however the information comes from the official enquiry.)

adam

**hamish** · 13/04/2006, 8:30 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

Although I'm not surprised, I genuinely did not know that. I'd wonder how many people do. Worth linking to his source material, since he's a relative unknown:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...750139,00.html

(Yes, it's the Observer, however the information comes from the official enquiry.)

adam

If it's Tom Paine Dahamsta - got that story via Information Clearing House but also got Tom Paine before via Smudge Report - column on bottom right.
http://www.smudgereport.com/

The website is named after a US "Founding Father" Tom Paine.
http://www.ushistory.org/paine/

Since Islam is in the thread, here's an interesting story from The American Reporter website.
http://www.american-reporter.com/

Notice a big rise in US soldiers killed in Iraq in last week - 2366 now - was 2342 about a week ago. Numbers killed per month had dropped over past few months but have risen again in past week. Mostly sectarian killing in Iraq and it's spreading even to Kurdish area and many Iraqi areas now.
Situation doesn't look good at all. Doubt if even a Prime Minister is agreed upon if it will make a blind bit of difference.

If the Democrats had any balls and weren't. with a few exceptions, Tweedledee to the Rethuglians Tweedledum, we'd see real opposition to the c.unts running America.
There is a chance they might win at least one of the two US houses in Novermber - then they'd have the numbers to really investigate Bubble Boy and cronies. But would they even bother?

What I would give to see is Bubble Boy, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice etc in orange Guantanamo suits with foot shackles shuffling out of the White House with buckets of manure being hurled at them - with apologies to manure.

**dancinpants** · 13/04/2006, 9:01 PM

The Democrats are starting to smell blood now. The elections down the road here in the 50th district (to replace Randy "Duke" Cunningham) yesterday showed a significant shift in support. Democrat Francine Busby "won" by what would be seen by many as a landslide, she recieved 42% of the vote while her nearest contender had 14%. It has to be said thought that the republicans ran a savage amount of candidates (14 I think) thus splitting their vote quite a bit. Unfortunately for Francine (and the Dems) to win the seat the winner has to get 51% of the vote - so now there'll be a run off election in 2 months or so.

This is however no credit to the Democrats, as you said Hamish while the sh!t has been hitting the fan (and very publically at that) for the last year or more the Dems just sat on their hands and done nothing about it!!! Feingold (sp?) couldn't even get a decent amount of them to support his censure motion FFS.

The Dems are in a strong position now purely because the Republicans are sh!ttin' in their own nest. They are a very, very weak party...and TBH they're just the best of a bad bunch. More parties needed?

**hamish** · 13/04/2006, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by dancinpants

The Democrats are .................................................. ..............are a very, very weak party...and TBH they're just the best of a bad bunch. More parties needed?

Yeah, dancinpants, I've been following Busby via Newshounds website and Crooks & Liars and I noticed how Faux "News" did a smear job on her a few days ago, playing soundbites from Rep. adverts about her financial backers etc etc. Needless to say, they ignored all the corruption surrounding the Rethuglicans in that very area. C & L and Newhounds DID provide that evidence.

Wish a few others had balls like Feingold but here's an example of what
p!sses me off about the Dems. This is from a left(ish) website BTW

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12707.htm
Wasn't she a Republican when Bill first met her anyway.

More comment on Iraqi deaths
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12728.htm

Baghdad Morgue Overflowing - 60 to 100 bodies a day

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32897

US allies are behind the Death Squads and Ethnic Cleansing (Guardian)
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12732.htm

Coming Home - Dissillusioned - Marine Corp. soldier
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12736.htm

Dead Cities - eg Fallujah (Moscow Times)
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12734.htm

Since yesterday, 4 more US soldiers killed - 2,370
April now a bad month for US soldiers

But hey, Iraq is liberated, had elections - don't worry, be happy.

[/b]Given Dahamsta's comments on Powell in post 61 above - this talk by Col. Larry Wilkerson to the Middle East Institute recently is worth watching.

Wilkerson was sidekick to Powell in the US administration and is a "Traditional" Republican and, as he says himself, "no bleeding heart liberal".

He makes a worrying comparison between China/Taipei and Turkey/Kurdistan**.
But he covers a multitude of areas which enlighten us as to the workings of the US administration, the players within and without it.

Some genuinely worrying stuff here.

** Even if the Kurds stay,as an automous region, within an Iraq framework. Most people would love to see a free Kurdish nation but, unless the West can pressure Turkey into an agreement - maybe using EU membership as a bargaining chip - there looks like trouble ahead.

His comments on Iran's role in southern Iraq and trouble involving Shi-ites over all the Middle East (not all Iranians are either Shi-ite or Persians BTW) and there being a possible Shi-ite v Shi-ite scenario, Sunni v everyone else and so on. The Israeli influence on the US regime is also touched on - delicately but you get the message.

The talk was on C-Span and it's via Information Clearing House.

Comments appreciated.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12730.htm

Throughout this national nightmare, I keep returning to the famous quote from a "senior advisor to Bush" reported in Ron Suskind's article in the Times:

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

Unbelievable

U.S. ignored Shiite militias, focused on Sunni insurgency

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/14364039.htm

Extracts
-White House and Pentagon officials ignored a stream of warnings from American intelligence agencies about the mounting danger posed by two Shiite militias, the Badr Organization and the Mahdi Army. The Badr Organization is the armed wing of the Iranian-backed Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, the most powerful Shiite political faction in the country; the Mahdi Army is loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr

"The American politicians couldn't understand the deepness and complications of the region," said Falah al-Nakib, the interior minister from June 2004 to April 2005, who said he raised the militia problem and the growing Iranian influence in Iraq with U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld. "They didn't take us seriously."

"I am against militias, but because of the situation in Iraq we need militias to protect us," said Transportation Minister Salam al-Maliki, a key al-Sadr political negotiator who deeply dislikes the U.S. presence in Iraq. "America doesn't know anything about militias in Iraq; it hasn't come up with any solution for them."

Baghdad street battle smacks of open civil war (Reuters via ICH)
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...archived=False
Extract
"It appeared to be the first example of a large-scale, open sectarian street battle in the capital, if not all of Iraq."

The Ongoing War on Truth in Iraq
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12777.htm
Extract
"But in Adhamiya, every night now for several weeks roads have been closed with tires, trunks of date palm trees and other objects to prevent "kidnappers and Shia death squads" from entering the area, according to one source, whom I'm keeping anonymous for security reasons."

http://www.wral.com/apworldnews/8793920/detail.html
Extract
Sunni leaders echoed the charges, blaming the Shiite-dominated government for the violence. They accused Shiite militias and government forces of taking advantage of the current power vacuum to step up "ethnic cleansing" in predominantly Sunni neighborhoods in Baghdad.

**hamish** · 21/04/2006, 12:47 AM

I have this in the Iran thread but it could just as easily fit here.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12798.htm
"Extract
We now know that the BBC and other British media were used by MI6, the secret intelligence service. In what was called "Operation Mass Appeal," MI6 agents planted stories about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction � such as weapons hidden in his palaces and in secret underground bunkers. All these stories were fake. But this is not the point. The point is that the dark deeds of MI6 were quite unnecessary. Recently, the BBC's director of news, Helen Boaden, was asked to explain how one of her "embedded" reporters in Iraq, having accepted U.S. denials of the use of chemical weapons against civilians, could possibly describe the aim of the Anglo-American invasion as to "bring democracy and human rights" to Iraq. She replied with quotations from Blair that this was indeed the aim, as if Blair's utterances and the truth were in any way related. On the third anniversary of the invasion, a BBC newsreader described this illegal, unprovoked act, based on lies, as a "miscalculation." Thus, to use Edward Herman's memorable phrase, the unthinkable was normalized."

The BBC are still doing it..............

Downing Street Memo, etc etc - more truth leaks out

White House knew there were no WMD: CIA
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12809.htm

Extract
"We said: 'Well, what about the intel?' And they said: 'Well, this isn't about intel anymore. This is about regime change'," added Drumheller, whose CIA operation was assigned the task of debriefing the Iraqi official.

Another angle regarding all those death squads in Iraq - again, truth is leaking out for past few weeks - here's more
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12802.htm
America�s Terror-war in Iraq

Extract
More evidence of American complicity surfaced in a Boston Globe article which stated, �The FBI's counterterrorism unit has launched a broad investigation of US-based theft rings after discovering some vehicles used in deadly car bombings in Iraq, including attacks that killed US troops and Iraqi civilians, were probably stolen in the United States, according to senior US Government officials.� (�Cars Stolen in US used in Suicide Attacks�, Bryan Bender)
End of extract

The US regime sinks into even darker levels of corruption and obscene behaviour.
In addition, any interfering with Iran will bring about Iraq Shia retaliation too.
Turkey has also moved 40,000 soldiers to Kurdish area in Iraq - as predicted.
New Iraqi Prime Minister won't make a blind bit of difference sadly.
HG

**hamish** · 25/04/2006, 1:38 AM

Originally Posted by gonzo

Hmm..........must be SH 40 MP 0.....Athlone's biggest ever win over Shams!

Be not too hard on mypost Gonzo. TBF to him, he argues with civility and vibrancy and if he believes what he believes, then there's nothing I can do except present more evidence. He's a sound bloke and I'm fond of him. That appears very patronising I know but, fcuk it, I'm an auld softy.
But there is one thing I do share with mypost, a hope that Iraq will have an end to the dreadful killings and maimings that go on there daily. I just feel that it was/is an illegal and unnecessary war based on lies and cherry-picked "evidence". To see the huge number of deaths and maimed - soldiers and civilians - for all this is dreadful.
Plus all that treasure which could have been used to help the tens of millions of US citizens who have no health insurance (45 million) and tens of millions of US folks who live below the poverty line.
It's all just plain wrong.

Here's more evidence that the WMD excuse was an out and out lie.
This from former CIA man Tyler Drumheller in Sunday's "60 minutes" programme.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/04/23.html#a8020

Some more information on all this

New Plans Foresee Fighting Terrorism Beyond War Zones
(Washington Post)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...201124_pf.html
Extract
For example, SOCOM has dispatched small teams of Army Green Berets and other Special Operations troops to U.S. embassies in about 20 countries in the Middle East, Asia, Africa and Latin America, where they do operational planning and intelligence gathering to enhance the ability to conduct military operations where the United States is not at war

We Are The Deciders
"There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity." ~~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
By Sheila Samples
Extract
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12817.htm
Of course Rumsfeld must go. And, ultimately, he will take George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condi Rice and the rest of the depraved warmongers with him. The American people have finally had enough of aggressive stupidity.

And we are the deciders.

MUST WATCH VIDEO

Hijacking Catatrophe - from CNN

An hour and 5 minutes long - video quality (and some times sound quality) not the best.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle6895.htm

**hamish** · 30/04/2006, 7:00 PM

This is worrying.........

Kurdistan: Dangerous Passage
Turkey embraces 'hot pursuit' in northern Iraq.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12555396/site/newsweek/

Extracts
Over recent weeks, some 200,000 Turkish troops, backed by tanks and helicopter gunships, have massed along the mountainous border with Iraq

Shia militiamen from Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army have begun moving into oil-rich Kirkuk, claimed as part of Kurdistan.

............. is that the Kurds will need U.S. help to contain any Shia designs on oil-rich Kirkuk.

**CollegeTillIDie** · 03/05/2006, 6:56 AM

hamish

Would it be true to say at this stage the Republicans wanted to impeach Clinton because they never get any action?

**hamish** · 03/05/2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

hamish

Would it be true to say at this stage the Republicans wanted to impeach Clinton because they never get any action?

Wha?? Did you not hear about the Bush twin and what she was up to during the night of celebrations after he "won" the 2004 election? Clinton started a trend you know.

Most young Americans can't find Iraq on map - study
(And New Orleans, and everywhere else H)
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...HY.xml&src=rss

Ordered to Iraq 10 months before retirement
Iowa teacher-grandmother, 52, in Navy Reserve deploys for security work
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12581184/
(Janey, she's the same age as me

- if that's the case HEY mypost, Condex - off ye go, join up - there are Irish citizens in the US army in Iraq plus 30,000 illegal Mexican immigrants so they'll take anyone now. They're even letting in jailbirds, low graders and looney tunes in now. You guys support the war don't you?? - Dubya - if your intelligence services are monitoring Footie - sign them up -you can use one of those rendition planes -- we'll look the other way like we've been doing for three years now.
Sign Mypost and Condex up
SIGN 'EM UP NOW.)

Oh, before I forget - you all know that US army families are running raffles, borrowing money etc to provide body armour for their sons in Iraq 'cos Rumsfeld and his cronies won't provide enough??
Well, here's an offer. Since Mypost and Condex are really up for this Iraqi "liberation", if you guys sign up, I, Hamish, witnessed by any Footiepersons here plus Dahamsta, do hereby promise to donate 200 euro (100 each**) towards the cost of your body armour if you sign up to fight your phony war. Right now lads, time to either put up or shut up. SIGN UP

**ok ok it's only 100 euros each - still fcuking more than Rumsfeld values his soldiers.

Now, one recruitment form for Condex
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/how_to_join.jsp?hmref=cs

and one for Mypost
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/how_to_join.jsp?hmref=cs

I think I should start a survey.

**hamish** · 04/05/2006, 2:06 AM

Right Arabist and Right Zionists. Fundamentalist Iranian Shi-ites and "moderate" Iraqi Shi-ites. Strands within the neo-con agenda.

This is one of the best articles I've read yet on the Middle East/Iraq/Iran/Israel/Saudi Arabian situation. I've read recently that the most oil-rich part of Saudi Arabia is a Shi-ite region yet the Shi-ites there have poor levels of employment, education etc. This article really explores in depth the links/fractures in the US and Middle East and likely outcomes.

A definite must-read. It's a bit heavy but gets behind and tries to put some substance on all the labels and shallow coverage.

The headline is a bit bland itself (sub editor?) and doesn't do the article justice really. Even those who might agree with the Iraqi war will find this interesting.

Beyond Incompetence: Washington's War in Iraq
By Jonathan Cutler

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12935.htm
Extract
"The Left would do well to remember that there are at least two imperialist camps in Washington -- one Right Arabist and one Right Zionist. Both are "sensible," within the framework of imperialist statecraft. "

Imagine Bush The Fool reading through this article.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12935.htm

Another thing I noted - and covered by many articles in ICH - is that the many of the Generals who have criticised Rumsfeld (and by implication Bush, Cheney and co) - most have NOT criticised the US for invading Iraq but HOW the war and it's aftermath in particular was conducted. Like Robert McNamara from the past, some have developed a "conscience" on retiring and are now in a blame game too when they were mute when actually involved in the Iraqi plans and attack - save them from getting the sack I guess like one General (Shinseki I think) who criticised Rumsfeld over troop levels and was promptly given the boot.
Like an onion, there are layers upon layers in all this and the current elevation of these Generals to "hero" status is a tad over the top.

**hamish** · 05/05/2006, 3:05 AM

Have a look at this quick clip from Hardball - US TV politics programme. Shows newly trained Iraqi soldiers' reaction when told where they were to be stationed.
Nothing like discipline eh?

....................are those the people we are betting our future on?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/05/04.html#a8166

**Condex** · 06/05/2006, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by hamish

Now, one recruitment form for Condex
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/how_to_join.jsp?hmref=cs

What a sad geezer you are spending most of your day (9.04 posts per day for 1.5 years) trawling lefty blogs/websites. Your like a muck spreader cr*p in and cr*p out, can't be healthy!! A bit of advice, ditch the broadband and get out a bit more.

PS: I've attached a picture of your hero, print it out and put it on your bedroom wall.