Tonights CL

[Clifford]

Juventus were rubbish last night and I think Giles was right when he said a really great Arsenal team would have beaten them by 2 or 3 goals. As long as the game remained 0-0 there was a possiblity that Juve coudl nick a goal and then all of a sudden the Arsenal back four could get nervous.

And you support who?

Arsenal didn't need to win by 3 or 4, so why press for it if Juve were as you say so bad?

[NeilMcD]

If you wanna talk about muppets I think Platt and Quinn are right up there with the best of the muppets. Neither of them ever has an intelligent word to say and they get caught up in the Sky hype that is the British teams. At least Giles is able to sit back and analyse the game as a true professional that he is and from a non bias perspective. Juve have been poor over the last few months and they were terrible over the last 2 games. That is not to take away from Arsenal as its a great job done and they were brilliant in the 1st leg. But they were far from brilliant last night and there passiing was terrible and Gilberto was one of the main culprits of it.

[NeilMcD]

And you support who?

Arsenal didn't need to win by 3 or 4, so why press for it if Juve were as you say so bad?

What difference does it make who I support. Has nothing to do with this discussion. Arsenal were fantastic in the 1st leg and poor last night. Simple as that.

[PaulB]

Giles was a complete arsehole last night, annoys the **** out of me. Arsenal were playing away from home against the Italian league leaders, with a 2-0 lead. What would you do, go gung ho, or see how the water is settling for the first 10-20 minutes.

I thought Arsenal did quite well without being brilliant, and with some better finishing could have won the game easily..

[NeilMcD]

And you support who?

Arsenal didn't need to win by 3 or 4, so why press for it if Juve were as you say so bad?

Also I did not say 3 or 4 I said 2 or 3. If you are going to argue against me at least try to quote me correctly please.

[dfx-]

There was a job to be done, the job was done to a plan almost perfectly.

The expected onslaught never came so there was no need for Arsenal to do any more.

Nah, there must've been some other game on last night..I'm sure of it now..

The job was done perfectly..?! Arsenal were defending their 18 yards line and not doing it very well, couildn't clear the ball, hacking at it, nervous. However the crucial reason why Arsenal are through is because Juve were so diabolical that they didn't need to do anything. Arsenal could have defended their goal line and Juve still would've hit the ball high to Ibrahimovic - it got to the stage where they couldn't even hoof the ball accurately. It's all they did all night - lack of discipline, lack of effort, it was a disgraceful performance from Juventus and all Arsenal had to do was stay out on the pitch at the end.

Juve players walking nee trudging with 20 minutes left, slowing the game down, no invention, no guile, no willingness to unlock a defence that Bolton do with ease - "Juventus are playing wihthout a single midfielder on the pitch" - to be outmuscled in midfield by Arsenal.....?!! You'd have to be bad..

I wouldn't be a bit surprised that Villareal make it a clean sweep of English sides they've played. Ignorance from Premiership watchers of they only have Riquelme and Forlan was rubbish at Utd. really gets to me when Villareal have prevailed against teams far better than Arsenal. Could well be an all Spanish final..


Or perhaps we should stick to the English media line of "Arsenal heroes stoically hold out in Turin cauldron"

[Clifford]

What difference does it make who I support.

I'd say it's relevant, I know I never see the wood for the trees when it comes to my team's greatest rivals.

Great to see all the differing opinions, IMHO. That's what it's all about.

You think they HAD to go there and win by 2 or 3 (sorry for saying 3 or 4 earlier, I'll never do it again even though it was in no way quoting you, it was all my own figures which I thought was allowed!), I thought they knew they had the job done in leg one and didn't need to do anything more than keep Juve at arms length.

Both are valid opinions on the job they had to do. Wegner is no fool, Johnny Giles called him a liar ffs, that's a disgrace. Giles is outdated, thinks every game should be a 3-3 classic. I'd love to see him actually compliment a team on a performance, he even said Arsenal's win in Madrid was cos Madrid were so bad, not cos the Arsenal were so good. Give me a break.

[lsc6902]

Did anyone see the under 19 Irish Ruby match yesterday. Is keith Earls a star in the making.

[NeilMcD]

Again you have mis quoted me I did not say they had to win by 2 or 3. I said that Giles said that a really great Arsenal team would gone on to beat Juve by 2 or 3. If Arsenal had of played well last night they would have won by 2 or 3. Because they did not play well and Juve were worse the game ended 0-0. Thats fair enough and Arsenal can rightly celebrate. However its the job of the pundit to analyse the game in front of him and he using his vast amount of knowledge of the game saw that Arsenal played poorlya and Juve were even worse. Arsenal gave the ball away numerous times only to receive it back from long punts by Juve. Even Liam Brady was saying he could not believe how badly Juve played and that Arsenal were poor and they need to lift their game for the next match against Villareal.

Secondly my support for spurs is pretty minimal compared to my support for Ireland and I like this Arsenal team as they play good football and very attractive to watch. I hope they get to the final and play Barcalona who bea them as they play even nicer football to watch. Arseanl are no rival of mine as I live in Dublin so the rivalry of the north london derby bears no significance to a guy from Dublin.

[Clifford]

However the crucial reason why Arsenal are through is because Juve were so diabolical that they didn't need to do anything. Arsenal could have defended their goal line and Juve still would've hit the ball high to Ibrahimovic

So why would they do anything else if Juve were so crap? To entertain you? The job was done in the home leg, for years that's the way teams have played - win at home and go for draw away from home, Pool did it last season and if it get's you through I can't see the prob to be honest.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised that Villareal make it a clean sweep of English sides they've played. Ignorance from Premiership watchers of they only have Riquelme and Forlan was rubbish at Utd. really gets to me when Villareal have prevailed against teams far better than Arsenal. Could well be an all Spanish final..


Or perhaps we should stick to the English media line of "Arsenal heroes stoically hold out in Turin cauldron"

Totally agree with you in regard to Villareal, I think they will really push Arsenal and are finding form at the right time of the season.

Yet by stating Villareal have prevailed againast teams far better than Arsenal you imply Inter are world beaters to suit your argument, yet they are how far behing Juve at the mo? So by using your own argument how the hell did Villareal only draw in the San Siro?

[Clifford]

However its the job of the pundit to analyse the game in front of him and he using his vast amount of knowledge of the game saw that Arsenal played poorlya and Juve were even worse.

Yet such nobodies as Wegner, Henry, Lunjburg and almost every paper this morning saw it as a job well done.

Hail to Johnny the king of everything. Every game is poor to him, that's the problem.

[NeilMcD]

No he said the game last week was an excellent game so thats one game so you are wrong by saying every game is poor to him.

Did I say that Wenger or Henry or lunjberg are nobodies. No I didnt however they are on the inside and ther views are hardly objective. From their perspective it was job well done and they are going to make those noises. However if they wanna win the trophy they should take a hard look at the performance last night and ask themselves why did they give the ball away so much against a very poor performing Juventus. That is what makes great teams great that they were always striving to get better and not letting the result influence their judgment of the performance.

[Clifford]

Did I say that Wenger or Henry or lunjberg are nobodies.

Did I say you said they said? No.

[NeilMcD]

So who thinks they are nobodies then, Are you suggesting they are nobodies. Where did the issue of Wenger and Henry and Lljunberg being nobodies come up unless you were inferring that i was suggesting that Giles was the only person to listen to and the rest were nobodies.

[Clifford]

So who thinks they are nobodies then, Are you suggesting they are nobodies.

Giles suggested it, he called Wenger a liar when he said he had a game plan - then proceeded to say his thoughts were right Wegner was wrong. Henry and Lunj had the same line as Wegner, so I'm implying Giles thinks managers are not worth listening to (he said so).

[NeilMcD]

Giles said Wenger was a liar when he said that the performance that Arsenal gave last night was the game plan. He did not say Wenger was a liar when he said that he had a game plan. Their is a crucial difference there.

Giles is right to call Wenger a liar if Wenger tried to suggest that the game plan by Arsenal last night was to give the ball away and be nervous at the back when their was no need to be despite the poor performance of Juve. I am sure his game plan was to paly it tight, to expect a rather British style of game from Juve which they lived up to but in addition to that to use the ball as constructively as they possibley can. They did not do that throughtout the game and only really did when Juve went down to ten men.

Giles was right about most aspects of last nights games and most of the time the players and managers reactions are not worth listening to as they are not allowed say much and usually offer banal anyalysis of the games. Look what happens when Roy Keane offered an honest assessment of a game. Now I am not saying that players should always be honest as there is a bit of real politik that needs to be used here on occasions. Thats why we have pundits who are free to say what they want and are not inbedded within the club.

[Clifford]

Giles said Wenger was a liar when he said that the performance that Arsenal gave last night was the game plan. He did not say Wenger was a liar when he said that he had a game plan. Their is a crucial difference there.

Giles is right to call Wenger a liar if Wenger tried to suggest that the game plan by Arsenal last night was to give the ball away and be nervous at the back when their was no need to be despite the poor performance of Juve. I am sure his game plan was to paly it tight, to expect a rather British style of game from Juve which they lived up to but in addition to that to use the ball as constructively as they possibley can. They did not do that throughtout the game and only really did when Juve went down to ten men.

Yeah ok, if that's what you think. As a Spurs fan I don't expect anything to change in this viewpoint.

[micls]

Yeah ok, if that's what you think. As a Spurs fan I don't expect anything to change in this viewpoint.

Who he supports is irrevant. He is right and backs up his points well. Arsenal were poor. Their passing was sloppy which had nothing to do with a game plan of playing it tight. No one was expecting them to go out and try to beat Juventas 3 or 4 nil but if they had played well they would have. Regardless of whether they ever passed the half way line all night if their passing and movement had been better they wouldn't be getting critised as they are.

Juventas were shocking but still towards the end they had chances to score and put the game on a knife edge for the last few minutes. This wouldn't have happened had Arsenal been playing and passing well-regardless of whether they scored or not

[NeilMcD]

Well said Micls that is the point that I was and I think Giles was trying to make last night. It was nothing to do with a game plan that Arsenal played poorly it was to do with how they gave the ball away and they would have won by 2 or 3 goals if they played well as Juve were that poor as there bottle and team ethic had gone.

[Clifford]

Who he supports is irrevant. He is right and backs up his points well. Arsenal were poor. Their passing was sloppy which had nothing to do with a game plan of playing it tight. No one was expecting them to go out and try to beat Juventas 3 or 4 nil but if they had played well they would have. Regardless of whether they ever passed the half way line all night if their passing and movement had been better they wouldn't be getting critised as they are.

Of course not, makes no difference at all.