Revenue Commissioners Investigate League

[pineapple stu]

The bottom line is that there is NOT enough money in Irish football at the moment to fund more than maybe one or two fully professional clubs. For as long as we ignore this reality, our clubs and our league will constantly bumble from one financial crisis to another

I'd love our league to be professional, but it just isn't sustainable under current conditions.

Sad but true. The league simply can't move forward while we all believe that the holy grail of regular Champions' League qualification is just around the corner. It has to move forward at its own speed and be the best it can become, not the best some pipe-dreamers like Ollie and Roddy believe is possible in their dreams...

[chippie0001]

There's seems to be an implicit assumtpion/assertion amonst EL fans that a professional football league in Ireland is a necessity, or even a right !

The bottom line is that there is NOT enough money in Irish football at the moment to fund more than maybe one or two fully professional clubs. For as long as we ignore this reality, our clubs and our league will constantly bumble from one financial crisis to another

I'd love our league to be professional, but it just isn't sustainable under current conditions. I suspect the FAI's grand plan re clubs etc (possibly involing an all-island dimension) is their perceived last throw of the dice - establish what they believe to be the strongest structure for a domestic league in Ireland, put some money into it as a once-off, and then see if it sinks or swims from there.

For what its worth I don't mind if we have an amatuer, semi pro or full time pro league. At Bohs I have long advoacted that we are spending too much and for the record we still are. However with Genisus and the new league next season there seems to be a move to a 10 team pro league. Supposedly the government are going to help with facilities etc. If all this is true, the clubs with outstanding debts will be equally screwed in a years time and we will have all this over again. Something has to be done, my favoured approach like passive's is for clubs to cut their cloth, but then that goes against what the FAI want. You cannot win either way.

[pete]

Shels have been overspending for years & dodging tax bills so they do not deserve amnesty. Typical Ollie to criticise other clubs when they down but does complete u-turn when he is in the same boat. Most clubs have the wisdom not to criticise others as could easily be in the same situation themselves.

[Macy]

If the eL is being targeted surely the GAA will be next? Surely any organisation that pays such huge "expenses" would be suspicious?

As I understand it, it was the Rovers wages being paid as expenses that tipped off the revenue to the problems in the eL. Because of nett pay contracts, clubs were stretching the boundaries of expenses to reduce their tax liability.

I think part of the eL problem is that the PFAI want wages to be net of taxes where the club is responsibile to pay the tax. As most clubs have only started to have professional admin & accounts this probably lead to gaps...

I'm disgusted to the PFAI's view on this. They are happy with the status quo, and I've not once heard them come out looking for payslips and P60's. Infact, as far as I can see, they've argued the other way, despite the tax pay back for the ten years after retirement. I suppose they only reflect their members views, and frankly I've been shocked at the attitude of some of their high profile playing reps view on the issue.

[manic da hoop]

The PFAI have no interest in how the league is run, they'll remain happy as long as their overpaid members continue to get paid. The manner in which their employers get hold of this money in the first place, and whether or not tax is paid on it doesn't bother them. However, if and when a club misses a payment for one reason or another you'll find Fran Gavin screaming from the rooftops about the shoddy way in which our clubs are run.

[Forever Dreamin]

If we take a leaf out of the IRFU book, 4 teams, all players contracted by the IRFU through the provinces and competing at the very highest level in Europe. If we take a reality check this is the way forward, a max of 4 or 5 clubs playing an a league comprising clubs from a number of jurisdictions. That would allow us to keep our top players playing in Ireland with crowds similar to the Premiership. However for this to happen it means the end of The El as we know it, and Euefa approval for a league comprising a few countries. Clubs can not continue to pay out more than they take in and the revenue have no option but to force payment or closure when there is no will to pay.

[Ronnie]

The PFAI's main concern at the moment is that no player is paid below the minimum wage!

[centre mid]

A MAJOR tax investigation has been launched into the financial affairs of football clubs in the Eircom League.

The Revenue Commissioners have started the probe with the 22-team league termed a "area of specific risk" with audits being undertaken on a number of clubs.

The move comes after it emerged that some of the clubs have significant tax bills with the League being highlighted as an area of risk.

Last night, a spokesman for the Revenue Commissioners said it was not unusual for the department to examine a whole sector after one business within that industry or sector had its financial affairs investigated.

One of the main areas of concern is in relation to tax liability on players' wages with a number of them complaining in the past that they had not received payslips or that the amount on the slip was not equal to the figure received.

The Revenue Commissioners have said that every team in the Eircom League are "engaged" with them and it was expected that this would continue for some time into the future.

Two weeks ago, the Revenue Commissioners issued a High Court petition to wind up the company, Accolade, that runs Shelbourne FC.

CEO Ollie Byrne has called on the government to grant a tax amnesty for Eircom League clubs which, he said, would give them a fresh start. Shelbourne owes about €300,000 in back taxes.

Clubs in the Eircom League were identified as being of specific risk about a year ago by a unit within the Revenue Commissioners. Of the 22 clubs in the Eircom League, it is reported that more than half are in arrears with the Revenue Commissioners.

Amounts owing vary from tens of thousands of euro right up to €1m, with the majority of the arrears attributed to players' wages.

Concern has been raised that proper financial controls are not in place at the football clubs with money at turnstiles sometimes going into a biscuit tin or a bag.

Irish Independent


Worrying times

[CharlesThompson]

This is a two page thread about this. Well done for continuing the thread with this article. Well done.

[pete]

threads merged...

[trevy]

Good to see some common sense from most posters about players wages and the overspending of some clubs in the league.If clubs spent what they could afford instead of running up huge debts building big squads while playing in front of 1500 or 2000 fans they wouldn't get into trouble with the revenue commissionars in the first place.

[higgins]

Ollie has some neck asking for an amnesty for all clubs!!

How in gods name could you work that ??
It would be totally unfair as all clubs have different amounts they owe revenue and the ones with the small debts would lose out.

If all clubs were to receive some form of a grant and the revenue takes the chunk they are owed before the remained goes to the club that might work but wiping all debts for everyone is ridiculous.

If clubs have built up debts its their own problem. Clubs have the right to build up these debts but it is unfair on all other clubs if these debts are cancelled one way or the other.

[gspain]

An amnesty is worth a try but not going to happen.

[LFC in Exile]

I think an amnesty would be completely wrong - in principle and in effect. In principle, all clubs knew they had tax to pay. Providing an amnesty would punish those who have the largest tax liability i.e. those who have defaullted or run up the largest bill. Also, it sends out the wrong signal. How can we encourage clubs to run their affairs properly if there is an amnesty provided.

In the article Ollie says provide an amnesty and wipe the slate clean then after that any club that gets in trouble will be treated harshly. Bullsh1t. All clubs knew before now that they had to pay taxes.

Also, in terms of the poitns deduction that Rovers got last season. AFAIK this was due to becoming insolvent - not having to make a settlement with the tax man. If Shels go into liquidation (or Accolade does) becasue of a claim by Revenue then points must be deducted. If they pay their bill before April 3rd then there is no case for points deduction.

On a related note - there have been proposals for grants to GAA players based on county performance. This will cost up to €3m a year. Why is this not extended to eL clubs. Part-time players could be funded in this way. There is no basis on which part-time players in one sport can be provided with these grants and part-time players in another sport are denied them. The spurious argument that the GAA is an amateur organisation does not stack up. The players may not be paid for bringing supporters into grounds and generating fantastic revenues for the organsation, but the organisation is one of the most professionally run sporting bodies in this country.

[Schumi]

An amnesty would be a farce. Why should irresponsibly run clubs get bailed out and clubs that have tried to sort themselves out at the cost of success get shafted? What's to stop clubs from running up debts again anyway.

If a club is incapable of sorting out their debt to revenue, their entire budget should be overseen and controlled centrally so they have to pay what they owe over a certain period of time and can't overspend.

[gufct]

we have been dealing with the taxman for 10 years almost now.The situation in relation to expenses has been blown out of the water and none are being allowed at all since the Rovers situation.


Why should clubs who try to keep their houses in order be punished while those who flout the laws of the land and the licensing laws do what they like.

As for payslips GUFC players get them with their cheques every week.

[Ceirtlis]

Talk of a tax amnesty is absolute nonsense. If Shelbourne have spent money that wasnt theirs in the first place then they should be punished. And that goes for every club in the el as well it appears to me some clubs are spending a lot more than they can afford.

[LFC in Exile]

we have been dealing with the taxman for 10 years almost now.The situation in relation to expenses has been blown out of the water and none are being allowed at all since the Rovers situation.


Why should clubs who try to keep their houses in order be punished while those who flout the laws of the land and the licensing laws do what they like.

As for payslips GUFC players get them with their cheques every week.

And did Nick Lesson get teh Revenue really worried?

Only kidding.

[dcfcsteve]

A Tax Amnesty is an absurd suggestion - made by Ollie, for Ollie.

It would be unfair on clubs who have smaller or no debts, and would set a very difficult precedent for the Revenue in-relation to sports clubs. Every other sporting code could justifiably then demand one as well.

In addition, it would be grossly unfair on Derry City, who wouldn't be able to take advantage of any ROI tax amnesty. It's bad enough already that we're the only club that gets hit with tax on gate receipts.

I suspect Ollie's absurd fantascism will be treated as just that by those in positions of any influence....

[Sinéad K]

In all honesty I can't see a tax amensty happening. To do so would require too much legislation going through government with regards to amending tax laws (both PAYE & VAT). As well most football clubs in Ireland are run as a business, with Directors and shareholders and most are also Limited Companies. To play Devil's advocate, why should a football club (as described above) be given a tax amensty when say 'Mr Joe Public' runs a company that employs 20 staff but over the years he hasn't paid any VAT or his staff PAYE so that he could operate in some fancy building, top of the range company cars etc. So should he also get a tax amensty?? I don't think so. Could you imagine the outcry in the country if that was to happen. This league takes enough stick without given anyone any more ammunition. At the end of the day tax laws do not discrimate between what you do, whether you run a football club or an every day business. As regards to footballers being paid net with no wage slips etc, I know that is illegal in the UK but not sure about the Republic.

I for one think that the league is going the right way with regards to on the pitch matters. The last two seasons have been exciting & have basically come down to the wire. But clubs can not afford to live beyond their means.