Peak Oil & Renewable Energy

**pete** · 25/03/2006, 8:09 PM

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. This is not the wacky proclamation of a doomsday cult, apocalypse bible prophecy sect, or conspiracy theory society. Rather, it is the scientific conclusion of the best paid, most widely-respected geologists, physicists, and investment bankers in the world. These are rational, professional, conservative individuals who are absolutely terrified by a phenomenon known as global "Peak Oil."

Informative...

**klein4** · 27/03/2006, 4:15 PM

I saw a good programme once(same guy who does all them renewable energy adds) but it basically said that ireland has one of the highest potentials to exploit wind energy in europe but with one of the lowest uses of it. I know in greece that all the houses have some form of solar power on the roofs of the gaffs. why cant we have wee wind mills on the gaffs here(or something like that but a bit more well thought out)? what has government to lose by bein more eco friendly?pure feckin laziness is all.

**Bald Student** · 27/03/2006, 5:08 PM

The oil is running out but it's not as big a deal as some people make out. There's plenty of alternative energy available it's just not used now because it's a tad more expensive. Transport is the only really vulnerable area and even there there are alternatives available.

Wind generators are different to most other generators and the grid needs to be updated before much more can be added. That's being done at the moment.

**Plastic Paddy** · 27/03/2006, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

The oil is running out but it's not as big a deal as some people make out.

Not in the terms you state but to ignore global warming in this context is like ignoring the elephant in the corner of the room. I'm not sure how wind-powered generators (I'm sure that's what you meant) are different to fossil fuel-fired generators but governments can incentivise development of these renewable technologies through tax breaks on innovation and the like. What's Bertie's record in this area? Pish I expect. And on top of this inaction the national transport strategy sets out the case for more new motorways and thus more cars...

PP

**Bald Student** · 27/03/2006, 6:52 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

I'm not sure how wind-powered generators (I'm sure that's what you meant) are different to fossil fuel-fired generators but governments can incentivise development of these renewable technologies through tax breaks on innovation and the like.

I was hoping you wouldn't ask.
Most generators are 'synchronous generators' which spin at 50 cycles per second (or a multiple of that). Wind turbines power 'induction generators' which spin at a speed above 50 cycles. The difference in the two frequencies causes the power in the transmission lines to pulsate, which the lines were not designed for. That's why the ESB is spending a lot of money upgrading the transmission lines. That's the main problem with the induction machienes but there are others aswell. When a transmission line faults (like when it's struck by lightening) all the inducton machienes disconnect automatically from the grid to protect themselves and leave it to the synchronous machienes to sort out the problem. That's fine now when we're only loosing a small fraction of your power but it would create a problem if a lot of our energy came from wind.

I don't know what Bertie's record on this is like but Mary Harney's is very good. There are two research teams working on these problems here in UCD and it's a similar pattern in the other universities and the ESB.

**A face** · 27/03/2006, 9:54 PM

Does anyone know what FF are trying to push through at the moment as regards wind farms, what ever it is will apparantly rule out the possiblity of the ESB to generate energy through wind farms, which to my knowledge will leave Ireland in a situation where we'll have to buy energy in a few years time.

I dont have the full story but from what i gather, they (FF) dont want the ESB investing in wind farms as the investment isn't very rewarding in the short term and not conducive to getting more votes but crippling us in the long term ??

Any ideas people ??

**Macy** · 28/03/2006, 7:27 AM

I know they were claiming we had too much wind energy, and said no more connections to the grid. This effectively forced airtricity to stop their roll out of new wind farms. This dispite rumours that the regular and seemingly random power cuts are actually because we're hitting the max at certain times.

Interestingly, wind power left off yesterdays list of the greener home energy subsidies yesterday too, when it is one of the most cost effective - particular where (eg UK) you can hook back to the grid and don't have to have battery storage. You sell to the grid when you're not using all the power produced by your wind turbine.

**dahamsta** · 28/03/2006, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Interestingly, wind power left off yesterdays list of the greener home energy subsidies yesterday too, when it is one of the most cost effective - particular where (eg UK) you can hook back to the grid and don't have to have battery storage. You sell to the grid when you're not using all the power produced by your wind turbine.

They do this in the States too, I was reading about a guy doing it with solar a while back and thought it was an absolutely great idea, really encourages people to make an effort.

EDIT: I don't think it was one of these, but there's a ton of articles about it in Wired.

**Terry** · 28/03/2006, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

The oil is running out but it's not as big a deal as some people make out. There's plenty of alternative energy available it's just not used now because it's a tad more expensive. Transport is the only really vulnerable area and even there there are alternatives available.

There is one more vunerable industry than just cars?

Every manufacturing company in the world needs to keep there machines well oiled. If we ran out of oil, we would have to revert back to using water mills again!

**Macy** · 28/03/2006, 11:19 AM

Or vegetable oil.

**klein4** · 28/03/2006, 11:24 AM

isnt there some cheap crop that can be grown easily here and used in the electricity making process(!)??? wasnt there a hydrogen car that they were bringing in?

**dahamsta** · 28/03/2006, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Or vegetable oil.

Are we talking about Star reporters again now?

**Student Mullet** · 28/03/2006, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

I know they were claiming we had too much wind energy, and said no more connections to the grid. This effectively forced airtricity to stop their roll out of new wind farms. This dispite rumours that the regular and seemingly random power cuts are actually because we're hitting the max at certain times.

There's two seperate things there.

The power cuts are as a result of hitting the max, that's openly admitted by the ESB and not a rumour. The problem here is a political one. The government and the EU want to bring competition into the electricity market so won't let the ESB build any more powerplants even though they're needed. The backwards logic behind this is that competition is 'good' and will bring down prices. The problem is that when it came in noone wanted to build any more plants so prices had to come up to encourage them.

The reason there was a ban on new wind farms was a technical one. Connecting a wind farm isn't as easy as connecting other types of generators but I think that that ban has been lifted for most parts of the country now.

**pete** · 28/03/2006, 1:45 PM

I think the link that started this thread describes how more we are dependent on oil for more than just fuel...

Solar panels are probably not expensive in themselves so are popular in sunny climates but afaik they don't use batteries to store the energy. In Ireland we would likely need to store the energy so battery prices don't make economical.

Irish people are more likely to complain about a wind farm than a fossil fuel burning power plant.

I don't know the economics of alternative energy sources but its clear the irish economy is hugely reliant on oil prices. Suppose we should stick close to the US so they can protect our oil sources in the Middle East?

Nuclear anyone?

**Macy** · 29/03/2006, 7:20 AM

Originally Posted by pete

Nuclear anyone?

We're already Nuclear - have been since we hooked up to the UK National Grid.

**hamish** · 29/03/2006, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by dahamsta

They do this in the States too, I was reading about a guy doing it with solar a while back and thought it was an absolutely great idea, really encourages people to make an effort.

EDIT: I don't think it was one of these, but there's a ton of articles about it in Wired.

Did you see Ethnic Man on Newsnight Tuesday night (repeated on BBC website tonight) - he had a propellor type wind thingy attached to his chimney and saved a fortune in electricity.It costs about £1,200 sterling.
I'm gonna do the same now since I'm getting a new roof put on the house in thye coming year.
I believe there are grants available for solar heating too??