Yeah, left Derry v Cork out of the attendances and out of the missing games. Apologies. I'll stick in 6800 so.
Derry v Sligo would be the second game, so I'll put in 3500 there.
You will have to go higher than 4,000 for the Shels Bohs game.
Main Stand was packed as was the Drumcondra Stand. they even had to open the corner of the riverside for Shels fans. Thats over 3,000 people in my opinion and I'd say 1,000 was minimum amount in the Riverside
It was closer to 5,000 from what I could see.
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I would have put yesterday's attendance at Finn Park at about 600. Dundalk had a good crowd up with them, and outnumbered the home support.
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Shels v Bohs
Main Stand 1800 Full
New Stand 800 Full
Riverside Stand 1750 1/2 full of Bohs
Riverside Stand 200 with Shels
Cobh v Shamrock Rovers
Estimate from SRFC club text was 500 away fans. Cobh Ramblers website says 900 to 1000 Rovers fans.
Maybe 150 home fans at most
PREMIER DIVISION
Bohs - 1463 (1976; 2340) [B] Down big time this season/B]
Bray - 1092 (1550; 818 FD) (missing Longford 2 and Sligo 2) DOWN BIG TIME
Cork - 3003 (3644; 4033) (missing St Pat's 1) Down by a significant figure
Derry - 2973 (2698; 1672) (missing Sligo 2) Up
Drogheda - 1751 (1682; 1554) Up
Dublin City - 488 (175 FD; 592) Down on Previous Premier outing
Longford - 725 (1004; 1131) (missing Bohs 2 and Shels) Down by a significant figure
Pat's - 1342 (1599; 1882) Down
Shels - 1458 (1949; 2158) (missing Bohs 2) Down by a large factor
Sligo - 1859 (1794 FD; 781 FD) (missing Drogheda) Up slightly
UCD - 546 (653; 306 FD) Down by a significant margin
Waterford - 915 (1513; 1753) Down by a significant Margin almost halved over 2 seasons.
SO OF THE 12 TEAMS IN THIS SEASONS PREMIER REGISTERED 9 HAVE RECORDED DECREASES.
FIRST DIVISION
Athlone - 421 (316; 291) UP SLIGHTLY
Cobh - 338 (403; 240) (missing Finn Harps (both), Limerick 1 and Rovers 2) UP SLIGHTLY
Dundalk - 1078 (474; 591) UP LARGELY
Harps - 424 (1347 PD; 1106) (missing Dundalk) DOWN MASSIVELY
Galway - 1148 (566; 571) DOUBLED AND THEN SOME
Kildare - 265 (186; 298) (missing Harps 2) back up marginally UP A LITTLE BIT
Kilkenny - 122 (185; 110) (missing Cobh (both) and Kildare (both)) DOWN
Limerick - 365 (669; 188) (missing Athlone 2 and Rovers 2) DOWN BY ALMOST 50%
Monaghan - 204 (183; 182) (missing Harps 2, Kildare 2 and Limerick 2) UP
Rovers - 1089 (1539 PD; 1349 PD) DOWN ON PREMIER FIGURES BUT BEST IN DIVISION MY A MILE
Premier Division average - 1504 (1759) DOWN A LOT
First Division average - 571 (520) UP A BIT
Overall average - 1050 (1195) DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY
Crowds are decreasing FACT!
How are Rovers best in the division by a mile when Galway's average was higher and Dundalks very similar?
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Hang on CTID.Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie
Firstly, all the information isn't in yet. There's 2 large City gates to add in - the 6,800 one from Friday alone has the potential to add up to 1,000 to the average gate at each Premier game from last Friday night alone, for example. So let's wait until we have all the figures up there, as I suspect the overall average shown above will be much closer to the 1,100 mark.
Secondly, you're clearing trying to spin your own view here, as you're not beign consistent with either your maths or yuor conclusions. You give the First Division average (571 vs 520 last year) as "up a bit", yet you have the Premier Division average (1504 v 1759 last year) as "Down a lot" and the overall average (1050 vs 1195 in 2005) as "Down significantly". Even ignoring for a moment the boost the Premier figure will get when all the outstanding attendances are added in - you're claiming that a 10% year-on-year increase in the First Division only represents " a bit", whilst a 12% year-on-year overall decrease is "down significantly" and a 14% decrease in the Prem is "down a lot". The statistical difference between 10-12% and 10-14% isn't that big - so what sort of change do figures in that region represent : a bit of a change, a lot of a change or a significant change ?? You need to be consistent here. Apart from looking to add your own spin, I can see no statistical reason for the differing conclusions you've reached here. As any statistician will tell you, its percentage changes, not absolute numbers, that are key in analysing trends like the above.
Your bias also shows in the fact that you're happy to summarise that 9 of the 12 Premier clubs have apparently suffered average declines year-on-year, yet you fail to likewise summarise that 7 of the 10 First Divison clubs have experienced an INCREASE in attendances.
Thirdly - any robust statistics and averages usually list a margin of area to reflect the fact that there will be a likely range across which the figures are wrong. Obviously we have no idea of the margin of error - but given that we are working almost entirely off of peoples opinions to start with, and also that Pineapple has been consistently conservative in the figures he's taking, it would be entirely reasonable to suggest that the margin of error on these figures could be anywhere as high as 10-15%. If not even more. Giving that the incomplete figures currently sugest a 12% overall decline year-on-year, even before the get the boost from the missing attendnaces, the likely nmargin of error makes it difficult to give them the degree of credibility that you're asserting.
Finally - these figures are not "fact". They are clearly estimates - and probably broadly good ones at that. But they are most definitely not fact.
This exercsie in tracking attendances is incredibly useful. It suggests that some clubs are up and some are down, and that the changes broadly reflect the on-the-field changes the clubs involved were facing. No huge surprise there then. But they don't provide any robust evidence to say that overall crowds are declining by any more than a relatively small amount. And given that there are plenty of people (perhaps yourself included ?) desperately scraping for evidence to support their view that Summer football is a disaster, it would be flawed for anyone to attempt to present these stats as conclusive evidence either way.
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 21/11/2006 at 10:26 AM.
Having watched el weekly, I find that hard to believe!
Have you got a source
Galways Average is well over 1450 according to our offical Figures.The figures for the Rovers and Dunadlk games were well over 4,000 but could not be reported as over 3100 due to HSE reasons.
Our crowds have increased by over 150% and would have been bigger were it not for the fact that the Town Side is closed down for redevelopment which is starting on the 27/11 with the reconfiguration of the lights followed by a new stand which will bring the seated capacity to over 4,000.This will be completed hopefully just before we kick off next season.
Easily explainable. They've had a woeful season and have been in decline for several years.
They've had a diabolical seasonBray - 1092 (1550; 818 FD) (missing Longford 2 and Sligo 2) DOWN BIG TIME
They dropped from 1st to 4th. They had exceptional figures last season and the season before due to figuring more prominently in the title race.Cork - 3003 (3644; 4033) (missing St Pat's 1) Down by a significant figure
They've two good title challenging seasons behind them now.Derry - 2973 (2698; 1672) (missing Sligo 2) Up
They had a very good start and a decent season.Drogheda - 1751 (1682; 1554) Up
They died midway and never got a full programme of the Dublin clubs.Dublin City - 488 (175 FD; 592) Down on Previous Premier outing
They've had a dull low placed league campaign and have been into decline a couple of years running.Longford - 725 (1004; 1131) (missing Bohs 2 and Shels) Down by a significant figure
Cup run aside they've had a poor season and have been poor for years now.Pat's - 1342 (1599; 1882) Down
They've had a season quite poor for a patch, ever declining crowds of Dublin rivals, lack of Shamrock Rovers. But their crowds should be better.Shels - 1458 (1949; 2158) (missing Bohs 2) Down by a large factor
They've done well.Sligo - 1859 (1794 FD; 781 FD) (missing Drogheda) Up slightly
Some of the same as Shels. No Rovers, poor Dublin crowds in general, playing Pat's on Paddy's day, WC clashes.UCD - 546 (653; 306 FD) Down by a significant margin
Diabolical season and have been in decline for some time.Waterford - 915 (1513; 1753) Down by a significant Margin almost halved over 2 seasons.
There's been the absence of Shamrock Rovers to be replaced by Dub City who had significantly lower attendance figures, there was the WC clash and the fact that some of the bigger clubs in the country have gone backwards this year in places.SO OF THE 12 TEAMS IN THIS SEASONS PREMIER REGISTERED 9 HAVE RECORDED DECREASES.
There's very explainable reasons for the decrease in attendances and they'll bounce back up next season. The general low attendances of the last two/three decades are far more alarming than this dip.
CTID hates summer football and tries to bend any figures to suit this. He would rather we play mudball and subsequently get hammered in Europe. Each to their own.
Anyway it is fairly obvious that attendances in the first division are up because we WERE in it. Every club bar two had their highest gate when we were in town. The two were Athlone, who had their biggest attendance when it was free in at their last ever game in Mels, and Kilkenny who would have got more Hoops down except our two games there were played midweek.
Expect next years crowds to go up IF it is run properly. That is no needless break or midweek games. Or clubs going bust halfway through.
KOH
Have to agree with NYHOOP the first division is a joke, rovers are the only team that brought any away support to oriel. Apart from ourselves and rovers the away support in this division is 0.
In fairness Dundalk brought a decent crowd to Tolka for both their visits. However, this season we played two home games on Monday nights, three on Tuesdays and one on a Wednesday. A third of our home games were played midweek in this shambles of a league, so even if the clubs had away fans we wouldn't have seen them.
We would have had a half decent support if ye didnt play all yer games midweek !!!
if u didnt play ur home games on a thursday night u might get more travelling support
Hore**** i'm afraid LouthforSam.
We bring a decent away support consistently to every ground bar yere's due to it been on a Thursday night and been 5+ hours away.
Don't recall Dundalk ever bringing a lrage away support to Terryland until recent times.Still though credit where it's due yee brought a large away support-fair play and long may it continue.
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That was free in as well
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Have to stand up for Conor H here, Galway have be considered one of the better supported sides in the country never mind div 1. the other 7 in div 1 have almost zero consistent away support.
We`re making it very hard to attract away fans by continuing to play on thurs, there a lot of dub based dlk fans for eg who dont like thurs nights, i`m one of them ! Fri or Sat has to be a better option.
Don't forget oriel that's it's not too long since Dundalk only brought a few fans to away games. I've seen several games in Terryland where the I reckon there was less than 10, and not too long ago either, and now ye're pouring scorn on other clubs?
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