Irish Cup Semis

[Dassa]

scary thing is that if we were talking about thi being fixed this would mean that those doing the draw were involved. Including an International manager, just cant see that being the case and trust me I have no time for the Incompetent F**king Asses

[dcfcsteve]

This mightier than thou attitude from Derry City supporters can't half be annoying at times. For something that you supposedly don't care about you seem to take a hell of a lot of interest in the Irish League.

I think you'll find his gag was a reference to Northern Ireland as a place in general - not just football, and certainly not re Derry City.

So if any fixation is being revealed here, surely it's the one that drags Derry City into a situation were they were not being referred to at all in the first place ! Sounds like a bad dose of reverse-paranoia to me.......

[dcfcsteve]

You have to admit that he is naturally going to put a Derry City slant on things. As I said I am no expert, I was not born until 1969 so was very young but whilst other grounds might have had their risks due to the times we were living in, I don't think the severity of those risks was anywhere near that which faced visiting teams going to the Brandywell with opposition team coaches being burned if reports are anything to go by. As I said in my previous post I am not sure that things have changed all that much down Brandywell way given our visit there a year ago which is a real pity as those events have nothing whatsoever to do with your club and excellent supporters.

I don't want this to be contorted into a Derry City thread (particularly when it's non-Derry fans trying to do it) but there is an important point of accuracy that needs to be made here.

The British Security Forces and the Irish League's own Safety Committee both declared that there were no safety or security reasons why football couldn't resume at the Brandywell at the time that the vote on returning to the Brandywell was taken in September 1972. Yet still the Irish League Management Committee decided that they knew better. As you've rightly said David, you were too young at that time to be aware of the original facts. But surely you would accept the Security forces assessment at that time would be a better reflection of the reality of the situation than your own presumption-based personal guesses 34 years later ?

Now can we go back to making this a non-Derry City thread agan please.....

[David]

I don't want this to be contorted into a Derry City thread (particularly when it's non-Derry fans trying to do it) but there is an important point of accuracy that needs to be made here.

The British Security Forces and the Irish League's own Safety Committee both declared that there were no safety or security reasons why football couldn't resume at the Brandywell at the time that the vote on returning to the Brandywell was taken in September 1972. Yet still the Irish League Management Committee decided that they knew better. As you've rightly said David, you were too young at that time to be aware of the original facts. But surely you would accept the Security forces assessment at that time would be a better reflection of the reality of the situation than your own presumption-based personal guesses 34 years later ?

Now can we go back to making this a non-Derry City thread agan please.....

I can base my opinion on my one and only visit to the Brandywell which which almost exactly 12 months ago. Now I do remember things from throughout the seventies and one thing that I can be sure of is that things have improved since then. If what happened in February 2006 is an improvement the God only knows what it was like then. Oh and we were also told last year that we would be safe. I can also base my opinion on what my father has told me of his numerous visitis to the Brandywell to watch Linfield and the fact that a visiting team's coach was burned out. The reason that Derry City was brought into the thread was that a Derry City supporter seen a chance to have a pop at football in Northern Ireland.

[Speranza]

I find it astounding that Linfield fan is portraying the security at the Brandywell in the 70's as unsafe.

I recall a post on ILF just a few weeks ago which refered to a grenade being aimed at Cliftonville fans. What about the Donegal Celtic riot? Although I wasn't around to witness events first hand the tales of older Derry fans going to Windsor are also frightening.

[David]

I find it astounding that Linfield fan is portraying the security at the Brandywell in the 70's as unsafe.

I recall a post on ILF just a few weeks ago which refered to a grenade being aimed at Cliftonville fans. What about the Donegal Celtic riot? Although I wasn't around to witness events first hand the tales of older Derry fans going to Windsor are also frightening.

The grenade attack was a paramilitary attack and an isolated incident. The Donegal Celtic incident was brought about by hangers on on both sides. A team whose support was usually in double figures all of a sudden managed thousands. Thing is with the Brandywell we don't have to go back to the 70s but just to February of last year so I find it astounding that a Derry City supporter can come on here and knock Irish League football.

[-lamb-]

venues have been announced as seaview (crusaders) for the bangor v linfield game and windsor park for the larne v glentoran game.

it seems just a little odd that both larne and the glens wanted to play theirs at the ballymena showgrounds (permission given, approx 4500, probably a full house and certain to have been a good atmosphere) yet the ifa still picked windsor park (14,000 odd, probably more than half empty and dead).

[Lux Interior]

I find it astounding that Linfield fan is portraying the security at the Brandywell in the 70's as unsafe.

I recall a post on ILF just a few weeks ago which refered to a grenade being aimed at Cliftonville fans. What about the Donegal Celtic riot? Although I wasn't around to witness events first hand the tales of older Derry fans going to Windsor are also frightening.

To be fair, my dad (who is still a regular) travelled to the Brandywell in Derry's IL days. Forget security reports (and the like), it was pretty "frightening" for him and his mates in and around the ground at that time. The burning of the Ballymena bus (whilst not a target for City supporters) was also indicative of how "unsafe" that journey for away fans had become.

The "grenade aimed at Cliftonville fans" (who incidentally cheered when it went off, thinking it was a 'republican' device) was lobbed from outside the ground - by scum not connected to Linfield FC (ditto the Ballymena bus - do you see where I'm going here?). As for the "Donegal Celtic riot" - average crowd 200, yet 5000 turned up that day. You do the math.

[Lux Interior]

it's getting down to the nitty gritty stage now.
the semi final draw for the irish cup has (surprise surprise ) kept the big 2 apart.

Yeah, but how does that explain why we played Linfield in the 1998 and 2000 Irish Cup Semi Finals and why we played Linfield in the quarter finals last season and the season before?

[Krstic]

Thing is with the Brandywell we don't have to go back to the 70s but just to February of last year so I find it astounding that a Derry City supporter can come on here and knock Irish League football.

Any trouble in Belfast lately????

I don't know, maybe a match involving your own team playing the the glens.

[David]

Any trouble in Belfast lately????

I don't know, maybe a match involving your own team playing the the glens.

Of course there was, there is always the possibility that trouble can break out at matches but can you not see the difference between trouble breaking out between rival fans and a ground not being safe to go to because of the area that it is in?

[Krstic]

Of course there was, there is always the possibility that trouble can break out at matches but can you not see the difference between trouble breaking out between rival fans and a ground not being safe to go to because of the area that it is in?

Are you trying to tell me that the Brandywell is the only ground or area in Northern Ireland where Linfield fans have been attacked???

[David]

Are you trying to tell me that the Brandywell is the only ground or area in Northern Ireland where Linfield fans have been attacked???

To that extent and in recent years, yes.

[Lux Interior]

Yeah, but how does that explain why we played Linfield in the 1998 and 2000 Irish Cup Semi Finals and why we played Linfield in the quarter finals last season and the season before?

Incidentally, winning all four

[Speranza]

Lux, I get exactly where you are coming from and agree that clubs shouldn't be punished for incidents outside their control although they should obviously attempt to stop these incidents.

My point however was that we suffered while Linfield didn't. Cliftonville suffered while Linfield didn't. There are numerous stories of City fans being attacked at Linfield some which scare the life out of me. Why weren't Linfield made to suffer?

[-lamb-]

Yeah, but how does that explain why we played Linfield in the 1998 and 2000 Irish Cup Semi Finals and why we played Linfield in the quarter finals last season and the season before?

you didn't think the draw looked just a little suspect?!?? starting to sound like a blueman there lux

[David]

Lux, I get exactly where you are coming from and agree that clubs shouldn't be punished for incidents outside their control although they should obviously attempt to stop these incidents.

My point however was that we suffered while Linfield didn't. Cliftonville suffered while Linfield didn't. There are numerous stories of City fans being attacked at Linfield some which scare the life out of me. Why weren't Linfield made to suffer?

Just what exactly do you want Linfield punished for? What did Linfield do that deserves punishment?

[Lux Interior]

you didn't think the draw looked just a little suspect?!?? starting to sound like a blueman there lux

"Urban Agenda!"

[Speranza]

Linfield didn't do anything wrond just as Derry City didn't. The sectarian board of the I.F.A judged that it was not safe for teams to visit the Brandywell. Why wasn't the same judgement made about Linfield when City fans were attacked, Cliftonville fans came under grenade attack and a riot occured against Donegal Celtic?

[David]

Linfield didn't do anything wrond just as Derry City didn't. The sectarian board of the I.F.A judged that it was not safe for teams to visit the Brandywell. Why wasn't the same judgement made about Linfield when City fans were attacked, Cliftonville fans came under grenade attack and a riot occured against Donegal Celtic?

The fact is that it was not safe for visiting teams to visit the Brandywell (and it seems it still isn't) which is why presumably the IFA made this decision. The grenade attack was an isolated incident by a paramilitary group which was cheered by a large section of the Cliftonville support who thought it was an IRA bomb. Nobody was injured if I remember correctly. The Donegal Celtic thing was a different matter entirely and again isolated as the crowd was swelled by hangers on and the worst of the trouble was when the so called Donegal Celtic fans (a few thousand when they would rarely have had 100) rioted with the police. You have picked out two incidents over the 30 year duration of the troubles and one of these was caused by a group simply looking trouble with the police.