Political Parties

**Poor Student** · 27/02/2006, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by klein4

I'm not sayin nobody should vote. but I am sayin I have the right to choose when I will or will not cast MY vote. And I wont if I dont consider there to be a candidate who even broadly reflects my own views.

I think it's generally considering your democratic duty to choose the candidate who closest reflects your views no matter how far it is. For example you may abhorr a certain party above all others and help ensure they don't get in by voting for the closest one to your views. Particularly in Ireland with the preference system you are asked to rank all the candidates right down to the bottom no matter how long to totally fulfil your democratic duty.

I'm not quite sure what the initial poster's point is but if he is talking about the instance of voting along the lines of your father then that is statistically in decline with Fianna Fáil maintaing the highest percentage liklihood of someone voting along the lines of their father. Voter volatility in general (i.e. your likelihood to ever change your vote from the first party you voted for) is also statistically on the increase.

**1 9 2 8** · 27/02/2006, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by sirhamish

I chose the Greens in the late 80s and am sticking with them

Do you not think that they are a one issue party?

**Poor Student** · 27/02/2006, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by 1 9 2 8

Do you not think that they are a one issue party?

Green parties were initially one issue parties when they came on the scene but like all long term political parties they evolve into developing a wide range of policies on various issues. You can particularly see this in Germany, the most successful Green Party in Western Europe (or even the world?), where the party is a major player in the political scene. If you go to their website I think you'll find their range of policies.

**Partizan** · 27/02/2006, 6:19 PM

I'm a Workers' Party man myself, even though my family is solid Fianna Fail. Good chance that the WP could out poll the Provos and take a Dail seat in Waterford in the next election. Local city councillor John Halligan is rated as by many political journos as the best on the Council and his topping the poll in Ward 3 (the largest electoral ward in the city) getting 1300 votes was no accident. Halligan is a great supporter of the Blues like Party colleague Davy Walsh and for the last couple of years has done a lot of sterling work behind the scenes for the Club

WP have been on Waterford City Council since 1974 and their record is rivalled by few parties. Provos are all huff and puff, FF are **** poor with Cullen and waster Wilkinson. Brian O'Shea for Labour is practically non-existent. John Deasy the FG TD I would rate as a good politician but the farmers will carry him through.

I cant wait to see Cullen knock on my door.
June 2007 cant come soon enough.

**Thunderblaster** · 27/02/2006, 7:27 PM

I just cross-vote.

**CollegeTillIDie** · 27/02/2006, 8:19 PM

Sir hamish

You can claim the cost back on your taxes MED 2 form from Revenue commissioners!

**CollegeTillIDie** · 27/02/2006, 8:24 PM

Originally Posted by Partizan

I'm a Workers' Party man myself, even though my family is solid Fianna Fail. Good chance that the WP could out poll the Provos and take a Dail seat in Waterford in the next election. Local city councillor John Halligan is rated as by many political journos as the best on the Council and his topping the poll in Ward 3 (the largest electoral ward in the city) getting 1300 votes was no accident. Halligan is a great supporter of the Blues like Party colleague Davy Walsh and for the last couple of years has done a lot of sterling work behind the scenes for the Club

WP have been on Waterford City Council since 1974 and their record is rivalled by few parties. Provos are all huff and puff, FF are **** poor with Cullen and waster Wilkinson. Brian O'Shea for Labour is practically non-existent. John Deasy the FG TD I would rate as a good politician but the farmers will carry him through.

I cant wait to see Cullen knock on my door.
June 2007 cant come soon enough.

Well use your transfers fully just in case your party man does not get in this time. The PR STV system is actually the best electoral system around.

**hamish** · 28/02/2006, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by 1 9 2 8

Do you not think that they are a one issue party?

Good question - 1928 - but I've checked their policies and being green can cover an ocean of areas.
Environment itself can cover the economy, work practises, agriculture and so on when you think about it.
Here are some details
http://www.greenparty.ie/en/library/...licy_proposals

I reckon, as members of a government, they could trim the excesses of the traditional parties and make controls of waste management/recycling stronger. - this worked fairly well in German when the likes of the late Petra Kelly was involved.
One thing I love in cities are streets where one can walk with limited or no traffic - Shop Street, Henry Street. Kilkenny etc.
I reckon you'd see greater emphasiis on extending bus lanes, greater emphasis on sports/PE in schools, s greater upport for creches and so and so on
But would they become tainted after a period in government with the likes of FG or FF? - sigh - probably.
Green would/will never be big enough to form a single party government but like the PD's would maybe, be part of one.

**hamish** · 28/02/2006, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Green parties were initially one issue parties when they came on the scene but like all long term political parties they evolve into developing a wide range of policies on various issues. You can particularly see this in Germany, the most successful Green Party in Western Europe (or even the world?), where the party is a major player in the political scene. If you go to their website I think you'll find their range of policies.

Yeah, PS, aren't there huge restrictions (or a ban?) on the transport of nuclear waste/fuel in Germany as a result of Green policies?
Angela Merkel will soon change that.
Funny to see nuclear power now even endorsed by James Lovelock.
Trouble with nuclear power, it too, has a limited, very limited, source and these days, when transported by sea (especially) you have a target for terrorists.
Bad enough to have the Bush Crime Family running allover the planet now with oil production nearing it's peak - no doubt they're succesors will be doing the same when the countries with uranium deposits (Niger etc) become the "new Arabs".
Also, the REAL costs of nuclear power do not manifest themselves until the plants are being decommissioned and waste storage is also costly and hard to locate. This basically means that you, your kids, your kids kids will be paying the costs from their taxes.
Finally, nuclear power has a history - right up to today, of malpractice, dodgy dealings, lousy safety procedures etc etc. Good enough reason to still be suspicious of it for that alone.
The pathetic efforts to advance alternative energy - just ask Air Tricity - is no excuse either.
Getting off point but even some members of the Greens are discussing the possibility of a new breed of safer nuclear energy so the party is a wide tent on this matter.

One good policy I feel that the Greens would introduce would be grants for all public housing - in fact for all housing - to have insulation installed - by law. The amount of heat wasted in EVERY area of our lives is simply MASSIVE.
A footie friend of mine who recently retired from the ESB told me that if we switched off lights in unused rooms and house technology left on standby would power several Irish towns.
Baning fcuking SUVs would be another achievement - so bloody what if it's a statement of wealth - to me it's simply the vulgarity of the nouveau Rich. Prats!
I can never understand how all that gunge that pours from factory pipes cannot be harnessed - ditto crap poared into rivers.

Here's the beauty of all the above - you lot would all have more money in your pocket - smaller ESB bills, cars with bioethonal fuel - cheaper than imported oil, demanding food without layers of packaging makes costs cheaper.
All the above takes willpower and an in-government party to push it.

**hamish** · 28/02/2006, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Sir hamish

You can claim the cost back on your taxes MED 2 form from Revenue commissioners!

Big thanks for that CTID - knew you could claim back but how much would you get back???

Hamish

**Macy** · 28/02/2006, 7:50 AM

Never felt pressure to vote for anyone from family - always had it drummed into us the importance of a) that people died to get us a vote b) people died to get us a secret ballot.

As for me, I would be a socialist, but best available will be Labour (but the left wing of the party will be my options anyway). After that, it'll be the best local workers from other parties. FG winning that no contest, the likely candidate a great local worker and a genuine fella that always has time for you.

FF non existant (wouldn't even reply to letters we sent on a particular issue), and will be run over Decentralisation, labour inspectorate, health service, and all the other things they've failed in since 1997. The local FF candidate likely to be parachuted in from the independents, so wouldn't vote for him on principle of running as alternative to FF in the locals, and then jumping ship now a TD's salary beckons.

At the moment not looking likely that the independent will run again, but too FF gene pool for me anyway. Don't really agree with independents, especially when their essentially just independent as they (or their parents) couldn't get on the ticket for one of the main parties. PD's unlikely to stand, but then hell not likely to freeze over before the election so won't be getting my vote. Sinners were in the paper inspecting Wicklow port (arf) there the other week, but don't vote for one issue parties, never mind my other feelings on the party.

**pete** · 28/02/2006, 9:34 AM

I usually give the Greens a vote down the line but just too far to the left to get a 1st preference from me. Unfortunately they have more in common with SF than Labour. If they were closer to european greens i feel they would do a lot better as middle alternative.

**Macy** · 28/02/2006, 9:37 AM

Originally Posted by pete

I usually give the Greens a vote down the line but just too far to the left to get a 1st preference from me.

Forgot about the Greens. Don't really have much of an issue with them as a party, but locally Deirdre De Burca is the likely candidate - that women can make Dick Roche seem like a rational, sensible politician.

**Macy** · 28/02/2006, 9:41 AM

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

The PR STV system is actually the best electoral system around.

Used to think so, but McDowell is right when he says the tail always wags the dog under the electoral system. Which makes it not very proportional when it comes to Government. The need for a smaller party to make up the Government always means that they punch above their weight, so instead of under a first past the post system where 35-40% controls the Government, we have a situation where 5-6% controls the Government.

**Macy** · 28/02/2006, 9:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I’d tend to agree more with klein4. If you’ve no strong opinion or can’t tell between candidates, well then don’t vote.

Spoil your vote rather than not turn out. Should be a none of the above option - we'd see a massive increase in turnout imo, and then the mainstream parties would have to address why. People not turning out gives the politicians a get out by saying people don't care, instead of forcing them to address why they don't care.

**John83** · 28/02/2006, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

...For example you may abhorr a certain party above all others and help ensure they don't get in by voting for the closest one to your views.

Now, now. It's okay to call them SF these days. No guns, see?

...voting along the lines of your father ... is statistically in decline with Fianna Fáil maintaing the highest percentage liklihood of someone voting along the lines of their father.

The only people I know who are active in politics at a young age are from strong FF families. They bleat about it as if brainwashed...

Voter volatility in general (i.e. your likelihood to ever change your vote from the first party you voted for) is also statistically on the increase.

It's still one of the lowest in Europe, IIRC. It'd want to be on the increase.

**pete** · 28/02/2006, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Spoil your vote rather than not turn out..

I disagree. Spoiling your vote is like saying you can't make a decision.

**Macy** · 28/02/2006, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by pete

I disagree. Spoiling your vote is like saying you can't make a decision.

Better than not showing at all imo. A "none of the above" option would be my preferred option. It'll never happen as the politicians know it would be a poll topper.

**Dodge** · 28/02/2006, 10:56 AM

Anyone ever see the film Brewster's Millions?

**John83** · 28/02/2006, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Better than not showing at all imo. A "none of the above" option would be my preferred option. It'll never happen as the politicians know it would be a poll topper.

I think RON (Re-Open Nominations) has occasionally won an SU election in UCD. I'm not sure why it can't be a valid option on the national polls.