Dublin Groundshare Debate

**Da Real Rover** · 16/02/2006, 6:45 PM

What ever happened to the shels to Donabate option?
I think Pats should stay at Inchicore no matter what, thats their home thats their identity, something money cant buy is the years long tradition in their HOME.
Shams must not let anyone enter Tallaght with them, if they are to survive they cannot cope with the increase competition of another more successfull Eircom league club in Tallaght.
Did Oily ever considering locating Shels outside the capital, to an untapped market?

**Bald Student** · 16/02/2006, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

What ever happened to the shels to Donabate option?

If I remember right, at the time that was the only realistic option because it would allow all of Shels' activities to be on the one site. A city centre stadium would have been unsuitable for this and anyone who tought otherwise was a luddite.

Now it seems that a city centre stadium is the only realistic option and anyone who thinks otherwise is a luddite.

**desaintsno.12** · 16/02/2006, 6:54 PM

i just can't see any big money bein spent on richmond park. definitly not in the next 7-10 yrs. like pete said two more stands would make it ten times better. but where does de money come from ?

**Roverstillidie** · 16/02/2006, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

Shams must not let anyone enter Tallaght with them, if they are to survive they cannot cope with the increase competition of another more successfull Eircom league club in Tallaght.

i have no idea who these shams are, but seeing as Rovers are moving to Tallaght at some stage in the next 12 months ill answer.

"if they are to survive"? do you really think the club will fold now after all we've been through. bizarre

"another, more successful EL club"? there are none.

silly post.

**Bald Student** · 16/02/2006, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

Rovers are moving to Tallaght

Nope, Rovers are staying in Sligo.

Get used to the new order of things.

**Dodge** · 16/02/2006, 7:30 PM

Originally Posted by pete

How much would it cost to turn Richmond Park into a comfortable ground like Turners Cross with covered seats? i.e. no �8m stands.

If you kept the existing stand & put in similar stands at the other ends would surely get it finsihed for �2m? 1000-1500 seats behind each goal & another 1000 oposite the main stand for 6000 capacity?

I think you're spot on pete...

Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

I think Pats should stay at Inchicore no matter what, thats their home thats their identity, something money cant buy is the years long tradition in their HOME

Agaom. agree 100 %

**1 9 2 8** · 16/02/2006, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Nope, Rovers are staying in Sligo.

Get used to the new order of things.

POTM

**anto eile** · 16/02/2006, 7:48 PM

The value as
A:a stadium is pretty low.
B: The value as a straight sale for development but without rezoning is very very very substantial (it surprised me to be honest)
C: value after rezoning is pretty close to breathtaking. Our advice on this is highly reliable and trustworthy.

i believe
A: roughly E2M
B: ?,a random guess says roughly E10M
C: roughly E60M

am i close?

**anto eile** · 16/02/2006, 7:54 PM

Originally Posted by Anto McC

Yeah,thats pretty much it

You all sing your songs about "no one like us,we dont care........" but at the end of the day,Shels are the team everyone in the league,loves to hate(it's jealousy really) and the majority of us Shels fans love it,i used to be different but now,i love it

"F*ck them all,f*ck them all,
the long and the short and the small,
cos we are the Shelbourne and we are the best,
cos we are the Shelbourne so f*ck all the rest,
f*ck them all"

most people dont give a toss about shels ,mostly because of your fans. of the 4 Dublin teams,your fans are the ones looked at with the most amusement.

pay attention here: dont confuse hate for your scumbag chief executive and thuggish dwarf of a manager for people actually thinking shels are important

regarding the groundshare. if i was a bohez member i wouldnt let ollie byrne near dalymount. worse case scenario, dalyer is sold,boez move elsewhere and build a new ground. how could that be a last-ditch fall-back plan if shels are in dalymount.
and would boez fans really trust ollie byrne? id give ollie a few years before he finds some underhand scheme to screw boez out of the rest of dalyer.
boez are in the strongest position. they dont need to help anyone. and even if theyre threatened with no further grants,surely thats illegal as theyre as entitled to grants as much as any other club?

id love to see boez say no to olliebourne but will reserve my hopes as i think that would mean The Fat One would turn his eyes towards Tallaght..and i would not like to share with shels i Tallaght at all.pats i wouldnt be concerned with though

**chippie0001** · 16/02/2006, 7:58 PM

Originally Posted by anto eile

i believe
A: roughly E2M
B: ?,a random guess says roughly E10M
C: roughly E60M

am i close?

The last one yeah, the middle one no where near.

**anto eile** · 16/02/2006, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by chippie0001

The last one yeah, the middle one no where near.

as for number 1, i think you posted that figure or something close enough to it a week or two ago.
what do you reckon the figure for B is then?

**chippie0001** · 16/02/2006, 9:06 PM

Originally Posted by anto eile

as for number 1, i think you posted that figure or something close enough to it a week or two ago.
what do you reckon the figure for B is then?

No idea what its worth as a football stadium, in a way nothing as well no clubs makes any money. Not disagreeing with �2m as such. If sold now I reckon it would get half the value of it rezoned. The problem is we don't know what it would be worth rezoned. For example Albion who own the shopping centre would pay a lot more than some one who does not have raod frontage. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

**TonyD** · 16/02/2006, 9:51 PM

Pats MUST NOT move to Tallaght. I think and hope that the vast majority of Pats fans share this view. Apart from the tradition etc of Richmond, and the fact that we(more or less) own it, there is also the fact mentioned already that Rovers are likely to have quite a head start on any other team in Tallaght. Why should Pats give up their own ground, their own area, to be the second team in Tallaght ?. If Delaney and the FAI try to bully us into it with threats, or entice us with promises, they should be told in no uncertain terms to F(AI) Off. I would get too carried away with the money talk either. It's been mooted that part of any deal is that Pats would put money from the sale of Richmond into the development of Tallaght. I really don't see a scenario where Pats would be left with buckets of money to spend on their squad. Richmond could be a nice tidy little ground, with modest enough investment. OK, it'll never be the San Siro, but we'll never need it to be.

In my opinion, Rovers deserve Tallaght, to themselves. Pats should be left alone in Richmond. Bohs have Dalymount, whether they want to share it with Shels is up to them.

No To Groundsharing.

**Da Real Rover** · 17/02/2006, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

"if they are to survive"? do you really think the club will fold now after all we've been through. bizarre

"another, more successful EL club"? there are none.

silly post.

Its a proven fact that Irish people in general prefer to support winners and successfull teams than mediocre teams with an illustrious history and heritage. Look at the age demographics for Irish people supporting Premiersh!t teams, the older crowd 'support' Liverpool, then the 15-30s 'support' merchandise United while the new youngest Premiersh!t fan in Ireland 'supports' Chelsea regardless of the success of past Liverpool or merchandise united teams. Therefore if Shels move into Tallaght with Shams there will be a whole new young fan that will be won over by Shels success regardless of the roots Shams have in Tallaght, the illustrious history of the club or the efforts of the 400 club. Your right that the club wont die but it will be the second Tallaght team and will be forever wading through Mediocrity as Shels wipe up all the new supporters, Shams need those new supporters to grow and prosper as a club, they cant afford shels in Tallaght.

**Jerry The Saint** · 17/02/2006, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by pete

How much would it cost to turn Richmond Park into a comfortable ground like Turners Cross with covered seats? i.e. no �8m stands.

If you kept the existing stand & put in similar stands at the other ends would surely get it finsihed for �2m? 1000-1500 seats behind each goal & another 1000 oposite the main stand for 6000 capacity?

Why can't you be Chief Executive of the FAI?

The whole concept is very odd and it seems to be based around the following notion -

"Look, there's been plans for a new stadium in Tallaght for ages. When it's built we should put two teams in there to maximise the marketability potentiality. Genesis reckon it's a great idea"

"But what about the team that already has a stadium"

"They have to move"

"OK, but this new stadium must be pretty amazing to make them consider"

"Well it'll have one stand for the first few years but there are plans to eventually double capacity to 6,000. Oh, and they'll have to be careful not to make any noise at night-time or else the neighbours will complain"

"But their home ground already holds 6,000 - why on earth would they accept this?"

"If they don't we'll cut off all their funding and threaten to demote them to the First Division - CHECK. MATE!"

This nonsense wouldn't be too worrying if Pats had strong leadership during this critical time. As it is, we've been spending most of our energy trying to remove an ineffective CEO.

As much as I hate to say it, you know that Ollie Byrne won't stand for Shelbourne getting a poor deal. If groundsharing has to happen, the teams that already have a ground should have more bargaining power, yet the way things are going it seems that Pats and Bohs are the clubs that stand to get the worst deal out of this.

**Vitruvian Man** · 17/02/2006, 10:15 AM

On the Bohs/Shels deal.

If Ollie Byrne owned a run-down stadium Phibsborough worth 30-60 million depending on zoning but had cash flow probelms, and an average level of debt for an EL club, would he sell half this stadium for 5 million cash to Bohemians + a government funded re-build of his stadium.

If Bohemians insisted that there was no deal unless it could be proved that Shels didn't have more money in the bank than Bohs at move-in time and also insisted that Bohemians got a 50/50 split of any money Ollies swanky new stadium would generate - what would he say?

**Dricky** · 17/02/2006, 10:31 AM

I think it's Ollie's Master plan to try to ruin Bohs once and for all, he buys in and then insists on selling his half of the grounds........ thus having his revenge....... it's all a big plot

**wws** · 17/02/2006, 10:40 AM

Its more John Delaney pushing this as part of his grand plan - the worrying part is he seems to be well in with Ollie Byrne

**chippie0001** · 17/02/2006, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by wws

Its more John Delaney pushing this as part of his grand plan - the worrying part is he seems to be well in with Ollie Byrne

Yes but thankfully Delaney is an idiot, actually he is worse than that. He will make threats etc to Pats and Bohs as Rovers have little choice and well Shels just want a home and it seems anywhere will do. If Shels pony up the fair value of Dalymount I have no issue talking, however thats not what is on the table. Also anyone who thinks even if this is a good deal that 75% of the Bohs members will vote in favour are in la la land. Probably 50% will vote against as they hate Ollie no matter what the deal is.