Spurs, Sol, & slander?

[WeAreRovers]

well the point I was tryin to make is that it is easy to find offence in most anything if you want to. how do we know hanging from a tree is a racist referance? have you ever seen the spurs team??? sounds like some oxbridge journo over analysing.

Thank you Klien for seeing this whole farrago as the PC nonsense that it is.

As for Spurs calling themselves Yids, Cardiff sing Sheepshaggers about themselves. But again, so what? There's too many people looking to be offended at the slightest thing. This is football we're talking about FFS.

KOH

[NeilMcD]

well the point I was tryin to make is that it is easy to find offence in most anything if you want to. how do we know hanging from a tree is a racist referance? have you ever seen the spurs team??? sounds like some oxbridge journo over analysing.

The point you made was that I made a homophobic remark which I did not. I dont appreciated you saying that I made both an ignorant or a homophobic comment.


In addition just cause spurs have Black players does not mean that some of their supporters will not sing songs that are racist. I"ts like the argument I am not racist sure I have lots of black friends" The song the Spurs fans are singing about Sol Campbell is both racist and homophobic. I say this as a fan of spurs and I find it sickening that they are singing it. I say give the guy all the abuse in the world for leaving the club etc as that is part of football banter. But there is a line and in my view spurs fans have crossed it this time. But in addition lots of other clubs have similar elements to their support.

Finally I think it is too easy a get out for these racist chants to say you can take offense at anything. The natural conclusion of this thesis is that you would take offence and nothing.

[WeAreRovers]

The point you made was that I made a homophobic remark which I did not. I dont appreciated you saying that I made both an ignorant or a homophobic comment.

He was merely pointing out that a reference to HIV is not neccesarily homophobic and that your assumption that it was could equally be seen as homophobic. See?

And your reply rather proves his point. Political correctness screws you up - as you've just shown us.

KOH

[NeilMcD]

Sorry this is the quote

"why is a referance to HIV homophobic?
very ignorant and (ironically enough) homophobic remark there NeilMcD"

he categorically states that it is an ignorant and homophobic remark by me. He does not state that it could be possibly be seen that way. If he did that would be ok. There is no element of doubt in his statement. It directly states that my remark was both Ignorant and homophobic.

Your quote above uses words like "not neccessarily homophobic and that it could equally be seen as homophobic. These phrases introduce an element of doubt which were lacking from Kleins original statement.

Also I would like you to prove that my reply screws me up.

[Plastic Paddy]

Yeah but there is singling out in a clever and funny manner, and there is that kind of bollicks. Its just plain disgusting.

I fully agree. Anyone who thinks it's in any way acceptable to chant such offensive and hateful material ("that's football", etc.) needs their heads examined. How can anyone honestly be an apologist in any shape or form for it or the scum who perpetrate it?

Disappointing to say the least. I thought foot.ie people were better than that...

PP

[Bald Student]

I tought 'hanging from a tree' was a reference to how Judas died. I can see the double meaning though.

It kind of puts the small problems in our league into perspective when you compare it to the reason Shamrock Rovers were fined on their last trip to Belfield.

[klein4]

Sorry this is the quote

"why is a referance to HIV homophobic?
very ignorant and (ironically enough) homophobic remark there NeilMcD"

he categorically states that it is an ignorant and homophobic remark by me. He does not state that it could be possibly be seen that way. If he did that would be ok. There is no element of doubt in his statement. It directly states that my remark was both Ignorant and homophobic.

Your quote above uses words like "not neccessarily homophobic and that it could equally be seen as homophobic. These phrases introduce an element of doubt which were lacking from Kleins original statement.

Also I would like you to prove that my reply screws me up.

a lot of conservative thought would feel that a)hiv only affects gay people and b) it is somehow a punishment from god for immoral lifestyle. so by you saying a referance to HIV is homophobic(therefore making the jump that hiv = gay) you are in fact perpetrating this right wing myth. seeing as the opinion is homophobic(anti gay) and borne out of ignorance(that hiv is a gay disease) therefore it is safe to say your post is both.

[NeilMcD]

But you have failed to realise that the people who are singing the song are the ones who are joining the HIV with Gay people. As I said the song on its own would not be homophobic. But knowing the background and the constant rumours and chants sung by the Spurs fan in his direction. It is safe to assume that the Spurs fans are falling into the conservative and right wing though that you talk about.


One simple reference to HIV is not homophobic but as part of a barrage of abuse and songs sung to Sol Campbell it is.

I would like you to withdraw the statement that my post is both homophobic and ignorant.

[klein4]

No. You havent said anything other than a wink wink nudge nudge I know what the song is really about spiel which doesnt really disprove what I said about your homophobic and ignorant post.

[NeilMcD]

Klein, you are on seriously dodgy ground posting that my post is homophobic and ignorant.

The facts are that a number of spurs fans sing songs about Sol Campbell which allege that he is gay. It is one of the main subjects of many of their songs, this and the fact that they allege he is a judas for walking out on the club. In addition to this when they start singing songs about him HIV this is related to the fact that they feel that he is gay. This is not my logic. That is the logic of the fans who are singing.

If The song was sung in isolation and was not connected to previous songs well then it would not be homophobic. However it is part of a smear campaign against Sol Campbell and it is also part of their ignorant and right wing views of the origins of the HIV virus.

[klein4]

please refrain from the veiled threats.
I have already explained (and roverstilidie simplified it even further for you) that the logic I am using about your post is the same as the logic you (and mr. guardian journo) are using about the song. if you choose to be too literal minded to understand that than it aint my problem.

[NeilMcD]

Klein you are missing the point. My post is in isolation. I have not made any other posts on this site about HIV or gay issues. The Spurs fans however have sung many many anti gay and homophobic songs about Sol Campbell. So in that context I think it is fair to allege that the new addition to their songs can be seen as homophobic. As I said you are looking at the lyrics of the song in isolation and saying that mentioning HIV is not necessarily a gay issue which is correct. However when it is added to a catalogue of other anti Gay songs it can be seen as a homophobic issue.

[Poor Student]

Neil McD is perefectly entitled to view it as a homophobic statement as he is identifying the sentiments and thoughts of those singing it. Drop it now Klein, that's a horrible accusation to throw at a poster in error. You've been warned.

[sullanefc]

As I pointed out in my previous post, there are huge problems with the game in England - gangsters running clubs, grassroots frozen out, a whole new generation lost to the game, the list goes on.

Don't want to go off topic - but these are not just problems in England. EL anyone??

[klein4]

read the posts and try reach a conclusion from what you read.
dont read them and try get them to fit to the conclusion you have already reached.

[finlma]

Put your handbags away lads.

Its not a nice chant, simple as that. No need for the accusations and disecting of people's comments.

[NeilMcD]

Finlma, I agree with you but I am also entitled to defend myself If somebody makes serious allegations against me on this forum.

[WeAreRovers]

Neil McD is perefectly entitled to view it as a homophobic statement as he is identifying the sentiments and thoughts of those singing it. Drop it now Klein, that's a horrible accusation to throw at a poster in error. You've been warned.

In fairness to Klein, he was merely pointing out how over-sensitive PC types can get themselves in a muddle.

It's perfectly reasonable for me or anyone else NOT to be offended by the chant just as it's reasonable for others to be offended.

Warning Klein for thinking logically is crazy IMO. This is a forum for exchanging views and opinions. Or is it?

KOH

[NeilMcD]

No, We are rovers he did not merely point that out.

He stated that my post was ignorant and homophobic.

Indeed this forum is for exchanging views and opinions but it is not here for posters to make serious allegations against a fellow poster.

[klein4]

sorry called ya roverstilidie earlier.
but thats twice now youve summed up in one post what i was tryin to say in 5!
neil I am sure you are neither a racist or a homophobe...let it go.