Irish Daily Mail

[lopez]

And don't forget the Belfast Newsletter and Belfast Telegraph. (I wish I could as they're both ****e, but there you go)

You're right, but the Newsletter is a Unionist paper. The Telegraph I believe is an evening paper although I have bought it first thing the following morning at my local ChAvSDA.

Lopez, I hope you're not suggesting that
a) the Indo is highbrow (it's worse than most of the red tops, and certainly well behind the Star in terms of quality journalism)
b) a FG paper - long time since that was the case, FF through and through these days.

Well firstly, unless the Irish Star is a completely different paper editorially than its British version, that remark is quite laughable, unless you think articles about Celebrity Big Brother, Jodie Marsh's love life and Jordan's t*ts are 'quality journalism.' It is about the worst paper here. Complete garbage.

As for The Blueshirt being pro-Bertie, the Sunday issue which I buy most weeks can be called as much pro-Bertie as pro-Gerry. It's been riddled with sh*t about Bertie's attempts at commemorating the 90th anniversary of the Easter uprising for the past fortnight. Hardly the Irish Press during the reign of Dev.

[Dodge]

Well firstly, unless the Irish Star is a completely different paper editorially than its British version, that remark is quite laughable, unless you think articles about Celebrity Big Brother, Jodie Marsh's love life and Jordan's t*ts are 'quality journalism.' It is about the worst paper here. Complete garbage.

Its TOTALLY different here. Well still full of **** but at least its homegrown ****e (Possibly new title for the league?!) Its at least 100 times better than English Star and easily better than all the other red tops

[hamish]

My newsagent gave me a free (of the many unsold copies) copy of the Oirish Maile on Friday and it is utter and absolute sh!te.

The (Irish) Daily Star is good on Tuesdays for local/schoolkids/junior football etc - that's about the only praise I could give it TBH - the rest is a three minute scan of "celebrities"/sex freaks/drivel.

[Macy]

Well firstly, unless the Irish Star is a completely different paper editorially than its British version, that remark is quite laughable, unless you think articles about Celebrity Big Brother, Jodie Marsh's love life and Jordan's t*ts are 'quality journalism.' It is about the worst paper here. Complete garbage.

It has a load of that shíte here too, but it also has some excellent journalists, not afraid to investigate and break stories. If they worked for one of the broadsheets, everyone would be having a w*nk about how great they are. Can't comment on the UK version - Guardian and the Evening News were the only papers I'd buy there.

With regard to the Sindo, that's an even bigger rag than the daily version. They're both basically the Herald with longer words imo.

[lopez]

It has a load of that shíte here too, but it also has some excellent journalists, not afraid to investigate and break stories. If they worked for one of the broadsheets, everyone would be having a w*nk about how great they are. Can't comment on the UK version - Guardian and the Evening News were the only papers I'd buy there.

With regard to the Sindo, that's an even bigger rag than the daily version. They're both basically the Herald with longer words imo.

One thing I do know about the Blueshirt stable is their total inadequacy to investigate 'loyalist' mafias. The Phoenix last september ran an interesting piece on how sh*t scared they were to get involved in this side of 'investigative journalism'. Fear of murdered journos is one thing but the article seemed to suggest that a newsagent boycott was a more pressing matter. It's similar here with the 'Mohammed' cartoons and why someone like the Scum and the Mail, who don't mind insulting Germans, French, Spanish, Scousers and of course, the Irish, are worried that newsagents who happen to be Muslim will refuse to stock their rags.

[WeAreRovers]

One thing I do know about the Blueshirt stable is their total inadequacy to investigate 'loyalist' mafias. The Phoenix last september ran an interesting piece on how sh*t scared they were to get involved in this side of 'investigative journalism'. Fear of murdered journos is one thing but the article seemed to suggest that a newsagent boycott was a more pressing matter.

Vey true. Sunday World journalist Martin O'Hagan was murdered by Loyalists and no-one down South gave a flying crap unlike the Veronica Guerin case. The Sunday World is an Independent group newspaper and they didn't want to know as it doesn't fit their pro-Unionist agenda.

To this day there is a de facto boycott of the Sunday World organised by Loyalist thugs - newsagents have been burned out for stocking the paper. Again, no-one in the South cares that Loyalist fascists are preventing free speech on this island. And no-one in Tony O'Reilly's world cares that one of their own papers is subjected to this outrage by O'Reilly's Loyalist buddies.

The double standards make me sick.

KOH

[Duncan Gardner]

You're right, but the Newsletter is a Unionist paper. The Telegraph I believe is an evening paper although I have bought it first thing the following morning at my local ChAvSDA

I assumed from the discussion that some readers might prefer a unionist paper, that at least covers real news (not just celeb gossip). It's worth saying that the Bellylaugh's editorial line is much more restrained in its unionism than previously, largely as a result of their having attracted more nationalist readers. Not sure about Ulster country and Dublin, but you can buy it at lunchtime in Belfast centre.

One thing I do know about the Blueshirt stable is their total inadequacy to investigate 'loyalist' mafias. The Phoenix...article seemed to suggest that a newsagent boycott was a more pressing matter

This is a bit unfair surely? Everyone realises the unionist paramiltaries are still up to all their old 'businesses', but journalism's role can really only be to investigate that. To lobby for serious action to stop it and send them back into clink at Maghabery, ye need to contact the Brit Govt through

Peter Hain MP
The Hospitality Box
Millennium Stadium
Cardiff (and occasionally Croker/ Twickers etc.)

It's similar here with the 'Mohammed' cartoons and why someone like the Scum and the Mail, who don't mind insulting Germans, French, Spanish, Scousers and of course, the Irish, are worried that newsagents who happen to be Muslim will refuse to stock their rags

I think they (the Brit tabs) are more worried that it'll kick off and they'll be blamed, or they'll get injunctions, or broadly they'll lose more sales as a result of the story than they gain from it.

Small agents are dictated to by the trade, ie the papers and distributors. Which increasingly means Tesco, who are forcing many of the small guys to the wall.

[wws]

anyone see des bishops loyalist episode last night??

for once i wish the loyalists did finish off a catholic!

[razor]

Maybe the Sunday World could come up with a daily pile of tripe to cater for those that find the Times, Blueshirt and Examiner a bit too highbrow

Don't tempt fate for Gods sake.
Coming from Cork twould have to be the Examiner but having access to a PC means that the only daily paper I purchase is the Evening Echo, purely for CCFC news if nothing else. Usually its nothing else.
For good value down south you can't beat the Irish Independent, its free pretty much everywhere you go and people still won't read it.

[lopez]

I assumed from the discussion that some readers might prefer a unionist paper, that at least covers real news (not just celeb gossip). It's worth saying that the Bellylaugh's editorial line is much more restrained in its unionism than previously, largely as a result of their having attracted more nationalist readers. Not sure about Ulster country and Dublin, but you can buy it at lunchtime in Belfast centre.

I bought the Telegraph for the old man. I know that he'd be a lot less happy if I walked in with the Daily Mail.

I think they (the Brit tabs) are more worried that it'll kick off and they'll be blamed, or they'll get injunctions, or broadly they'll lose more sales as a result of the story than they gain from it.

Small agents are dictated to by the trade, ie the papers and distributors. Which increasingly means Tesco, who are forcing many of the small guys to the wall.

It would have not mattered if all of the papers stood together and printed at least one cartoon (the one with Mohammed saying that he had run out of virgins certainly had a point). The pathetic posturing from the Scum at least (we won't be intimidated etc, but we don't want to offend anyone) was side splitting.

Small newsagents have in the past stood up for free speech in the British media. Remember Private Eye's post Diana issue which was removed from the shelves of all the main retailers in Britain? Thanks to corner shops, we were still able to read an alternative view to the freshly cut-onion induced hysteria of September 1997. Anyway, most Asian newsagents are non-Muslim, so that probably wouldn't have been a factor.

[CollegeTillIDie]

It's not aimed at the English in Ireland. If it was, the market would be too small and they wouldn't need to go to the expense of altering the content at all. It's clearly being marketed to the Paddies. Who undoubtedly will buy it....

104,000 people with GB passports living in the Republic per last census.
For more info try this link www.cso.ie/census 2002

[dcfcsteve]

104,000 people with GB passports living in the Republic per last census.
For more info try this link www.cso.ie/census 2002

Proves my point exactly.

That's less than the entire population of Derry. You wouldn't go to the expense and hassle of launching a new 'national' newspaper if you were only going to aim it solely at the population of Derry.

But let's imagine they were aiming it solely at the English in Ireland. Before I begin - for the purposes of these figures I'll ignore the fact that a substantial proportion of those passport holders living in the Republic are likely to be Northerners, of both persuasuion.

Building an hypothesis - I'll assume that 10% of those 104,000 arent adults/of newspaper buying age, so can be discounted.

I'll next assume that only 50% of the remaining 94,000 are likely to buy ANY newspaper on one or more occassion a week (actual combined circulation figures for papers in England and Ireland suggest that active purchase percentage would in realityy be much lower - but I'm happy to be optimistic with the figures here). That would give the Mail a total target universe of 47,000 English people in Ireland buying ANY newspaper.

Again hypothesising (and also because the point will prove itself without me aving to go the hassle of digging out stats re circulation percentages) - if we assume that within the plethora of newspaper options available to an English/British person living in Ireland (i.e. most of the English papers, and quite a few Irish ones as well), that 20% of those active English/British newsreaders would look to buy the Irish Mail. That figure feels high - but again, I'm happy to give the Mail the ebenfit of the doubt here.

That would therfore mean that of the recognised English/British population in Ireland - some of whom would actually be from Northern Ireland, not all of whom are of newspaper buying age, not all of whom actually do buy a newspaper regularly, and only a minority of whom would be likely to be the Mail - we arrive at a hypothesised likely audience of 9,400 British passport holders. Hardly likely to set the pulses racing in Fleet Street/Canary Wharf about picking-off the expats in Dublin with a new rag....

That tallies nicely with the actual daily sales figure currently of 10,000 per day for the English version of the Daily Mail in Ireland (he said, having just found this figure and feeling rather pleased with his hypothesis building.... )

To exhibit the Mail's actual ambitions in ireland - it's Executive Director Peter Drury has stated that the company would be happy with sales of 40,000 a day. Now, I don't for one minute believe that is anything other than an under-statement of their genuine hopes/expectations - but even that's not a figure they'll hit without significant support from the Irish newspaper buying public.

And if there was any further doubt over who the Irish Mail is aimed at - they've dropped the royal crest from the English version of their masthead, and have put the word 'Irish' between the 'Daily' and 'Mail' in green ink. And there's a free shilealigh and a hundred thousand welcomes inside for everyone who buys it.....

[hamish]

Proves my point exactly........................................... .................................................. ......................................

That's less than and a hundred thousand weleveryone who buys it.....

Plus I believe Associated Newspapers have lost 100s of thousands sterling launching and maintaining Ireland on Sunday alone so, how in Heaven's name, they think they're going to make a profit,even in the long term, and (even if everybody falls in love with their crap new daily) with the massive costs launching and maintaining this rag too, I think they're on a loser
(Thank God).
Besides, the new free Metro (and I think the Herald has a freebie too) will also eat into they're sales.
The only place where newspaper sales are rising is in Africa and many newspaper groups are being hammered by the internet everywhere else and therefore the Murdochs, O'Reillys etc are focusing on this media where the advertising is going.
Which makes me wonder.
What's Ass. Newspapers angle here? They know they're on a loser and they won't make it back on advertising anyway so what are they up to??

[Macy]

104,000 people with GB passports living in the Republic per last census.
For more info try this link www.cso.ie/census 2002

Could be Irish and born before 1948.

It would also assume that all Brits are right wing bigots, which isn't true either. More than a few posters on here that would fit right in with the politics of the Mail though, so can see it doing alright.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Macy

It includes all of what you say and English, Scottish, Welsh, Manx and Chunnel Islanders , plus HK ex-pats too I think.
104,000 would be a very acceptable figure for sales for a daily newspaper in this country however. That would require 100% of the Brit passport holder subgroup of the population.

One observation... Northern nationalists with UK passports = hypocrites.
But then as hypocrisy is a very Irish trait .....

[WeAreRovers]

Plus I believe Associated Newspapers have lost 100s of thousands sterling launching and maintaining Ireland on Sunday alone

Make that €51 milllion* in losses since launch. A phenomenal amount by any standards. Associated (The Mail) also own most of Metro but British media analysts claim to be confused by their Irish strategy. I have to say I am too but one thing for sure they have deep pockets and lots of patience.

KOH

*http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/.../story8858.asp

[lopez]

I was talking about this subject with a newspaper buddy of mine on Tuesday. I spoke about the pricing differential between the Blushirt, Times and even the Star and the sh*trags from 'the mainland.' Apparently because they're foreign owned they don't get hammered with tax. I thought different (larger overall production for instance was the case), but he assured me this was why. This is a f*cking disgrace!

[hamish]

Make that €51 milllion* in losses since launch. A phenomenal amount by any standards. Associated (The Mail) also own most of Metro but British media analysts claim to be confused by their Irish strategy. I have to say I am too but one thing for sure they have deep pockets and lots of patience.

KOH

*http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/.../story8858.asp

51 millions?? FFS - that's a massive sum wearerovers!

Yeah, they must have long term plans but I still think they'll never shake off the reputation the Mail has here but then we felt that way about The Sun and look at it's sales in Ireland now, even if it's "Oirished" up.

The Mail in the UK sells over 2 million copies daily (sales only here, not bulks) - who the fcuk buys it? I mean, I can imagine "Major Jones from Tunbridge Wells" buying it and old Tories but who else? It's a p!sspoor paper for sport and politics so why is it so popular even in England? I think only The Sun outsells it there.

[dcfcsteve]

The Mail in the UK sells over 2 million copies daily (sales only here, not bulks) - who the fcuk buys it? I mean, I can imagine "Major Jones from Tunbridge Wells" buying it and old Tories but who else? It's a p!sspoor paper for sport and politics so why is it so popular even in England? I think only The Sun outsells it there.

The Mail is the national voice of 'Middle England'. Its readership stretches from the newly bourgeois (i.e. blue collar workers turning white collar, and leaving The Sun behind) to old grannies. Primarily white, English and Middle Class. A similar demographic to the Telegraph in England - only younger and with a higher penetration at the lower end of the social scale.

My mum buys the feckin Daily Mail as well - even though Padraig Flynn is a 2nd cousin of hers ! She just likes the format and the competitions. Believe me, I've tried. As she doesn't smoke or drink and is still a virgin, it's her only illicit pleasure in life...

[hamish]

The Mail is the national voice of 'Middle England'. Its readership stretches from the newly bourgeois (i.e. blue collar workers turning white collar, and leaving The Sun behind) to old grannies. Primarily white, English and Middle Class. A similar demographic to the Telegraph in England - only younger and with a higher penetration at the lower end of the social scale.

My mum buys the feckin Daily Mail as well - even though Padraig Flynn is a 2nd cousin of hers ! She just likes the format and the competitions. Believe me, I've tried. As she doesn't smoke or drink and is still a virgin, it's her only illicit pleasure in life...

Good information Steve. That first paragraph beautifully covers what the readership is composed of. It's popularity always confused me.

Second paragraph - mother a virgin? - you're, you're, you're not the, the, the, the second coming?.
(Hamish desperately rummages for his old cathecism, prayer books, rosary beads, confession timetables and time of next bus to Knock Shrine).

PS - eh...between you and me, wouldya put in an auld good word with HIM upstairs.........eh?? You have his ear doncha?