I assume you saw the classy Martin Jol rushing over to shake it otherwise you wouldn't only be accusing Wenger or was that all Sky Sports showed you!!Originally Posted by Docboy
I'm really looking forward to the classy Jol apologising for his band of cheats in good time!
Eitherway, I'm sure they'll enjoy watching Eastenders on Tuesday Night
Last edited by Karlos; 22/04/2006 at 3:03 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Well considering that Davids went down the left wing where Eboue would have been able to track back and try and cover I think it made a lot of difference. I mean it wasn't like Spurs were pouring forward when Eboue went down, they were inching forward and hoping for an opening. Also I was unaware that Davids, Keane and the rest of the Spurs team had recieved they're degrees in medicine and were able to call whether or not a player, laying to the ground, holding his leg, was badly injured or not by looking at himI'm suprised Sky Sports even made anything out of it. 2 Arsenal players clashed in the middle of the pitch. Neither of them were badly hurt, Spurs gained no advantage. Whether the Arsenal players clashed or not it would not have changed anything, Spurs would still have scored. Perfectly fair goal. People should be more worried about players diving rather than something like this.
4th spot is in Spurs hands now, although Champions league football isn't.
There's now unwritten rules that need to be followed it appears. Firstly you have to cause the injury yourself otherwise you should just play on freely with any advantage you get and secondly if there's any doubt, just take a glance and dertmine that it's not life threatening in YOUR opinion.
The spirit of fair play is alive and well.
Make sure you inform the kids around the world that fair play is out the window now & that they should now act like this when a player injures himself unintentionally.
Just counting the time that elapses between the injury and the goal shows how disgraceful this was - there was no question that the player wasn't injured unless you want to accuse Arsenal players of now diving under challenges from their own!!!
Last edited by Karlos; 22/04/2006 at 2:59 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
At the end of the day, Arsenal didn't play well enough to earn all 3 points and Spurs deserved something.
Classy Martin didn't see the incident and neither did his players it seem. Is he fu*king serious!
Not enough class to admit he's a cheat!
oh and by the way, he went to shake the referrees hand in the middle of the pitch instead of walking two yards to shake Wengers according to saintly Martin himself!
"I didn't even see it, I was watching Davids," Jol told Sky Sports 1.
"The lad was going down and standing up, so for me, there was no problem.
"Wenger was pretty upset about it, but I didn't even see it."
The two managers did not shake hands at the final whistle, but Jol was not keen to make much of the failure to adhere to a traditional custom.
He added: "I was going to the referee and shook hands with him.
"Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win, maybe it's difficult being a manager, but for me, I think we deserved something out of this game."
Last edited by Karlos; 22/04/2006 at 3:32 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Neither team did enough to win the game but we may have seen a different result if it had played out in the right spirit as it was for the majority.At the end of the day, Arsenal didn't play well enough to earn all 3 points and Spurs deserved something.
The stats were very even and a point overall was a fair result.
A win for Spurs would have been disgraceful under the circumstances in my opinion and a very poor advert for the game.
Stats
Arsenal - Tottenham
1 Goals 1
6 Shots on Target 6
3 Shots off Target 3
0 Blocked Shots 0
5 Corners 4
10 Fouls 9
2 Offsides 5
1 Yellow Cards 0
0 Red Cards 1
45% Possession 55%
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Well surely a draw is a fair result then?
Life without Rovers, it makes no sense...it's a heartache...nothing but a fools game. S.R.F.C.
"I think it is a shame, personally," Wenger told Sky Sports 1.
"There was a hesitation from Carrick. He saw two players down to kick the ball out of play.
"If they did not see if from the bench, or even lie about that, I find that very disappointing."
Wenger told the bbc
"Their first goal was a disgrace. They lie when they say they didn't see it. I can't believe they didn't see it. Of course they lie," he said.
"I find it very disappointing and it is a shame that a thing like that can happen.
"It is nothing to do with the stakes riding on the game. It is whether you think something is fair or unfair. You expect to get the ball back there.
"We did it on Wednesday against Villarreal in the Champions League every time, even when we sometimes felt it was unfair for them to get it back."
Wenger added: "If that's the way they want to behave then that is their responsibility, but I don't agree with that.
"I don't agree with it and if football goes that way it becomes very petty."
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Well surely a draw is a fair result then?
I think I said that.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
who have spurs left to play and who have arsenal left to play ?
The stats were completely in Spurs favour until they got the goal. After they scored and Davids got sent off it was always going to be one way traffic. It was a fair result, Spurs deserved a goal, Arsenal deserved a goal. Every team gets a bit lucky every now and again. I bet you wouldn't be complaining if Pires went down easily to win a peno.
Last edited by eirebhoy; 22/04/2006 at 5:18 PM.
You could have goggled it in the time it took you write the question.
Glad that Spurs got the draw even if it was controversial. Fair play to Robbie for putting it away.
The stats from after halftime were in Arsenal's favour. More shots on target during that period than Spurs had. They were anything but on top when their goal arrived.
We obviously have a very different understanding of what 'luck' is. Luck for me is a deflected goal or marginal offside in your favour. Gaining a known
advantage and ultimately a goal by failing to kick a ball out of play while two players lie injured is not luck, it's unsporting behaviour at the very least and cheating in my eyes. A bit of luck would have been Spurs scoring off Jen's nose in the first half and they would have been deserving of that luck.
You don't earn the right to cheat by your performance earlier where you didn't get any luck. Spurs deserved a goal during their domination but not when they stole a lead and changed the shape of the game.
I hope we don't see any future games decided on this type of 'luck'.
You'd be losing your money then as you don't know me very well. If Pires goes down in the box for a penalty then he is cheat. If I was going to label Pires as a cheat for that one penalty incident then I'd also have to label Rooney, Van Nistelroy, Drogba and EVERY other player who ever took a dive.......where does this end. Diving is a problem everywhere and in every game and it's cheating - very simple. It's amazing how when Pires dives he cheats but when it's others it's gamemanship. It's all cheating and i've never argued otherwise.
What happened today is not a similar situation to diving however, it's a situation that doesn't occur often, thank god. Today wasn't about trying to con a third party (i.e. referee) into making a discision, it was about Spurs making a decision by themselvs when they saw an opportunity. A descision that goes totally against the concept of FAIR PLAY.
It will come back to bite Spurs in the ass sometime and I'm looking forward to that.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
Or, for a somewhat more balanced view of the incident:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...ngland&cc=5901
Incidentally, regarding all the above talk of cheating: diving is against the rules. Not kicking the ball out of play is not.
I'm tired of watching these managers bitching continuously every time a decision doesn't go their way. It should be left to the referee to decide if a player is injured enough to stop the game. It has become a farce nowadays players looking for the game to be stopped for the slightest knock. From the time kids start playing football they are thought to “play until you hear a whistle”. Nothing has changed in my opinion. Just sour grapes from Mr. Whinger.
Always look on the bright side of life
FYI, Unsporting Conduct is a part of the FIFA Laws of the game and includes such items as shirt pulling, cheating & using means to gain an unfair advantage. This law is very much open to interpretation. Stealing 5 yards to take a throw in, is also in the laws of the game and almost never enforced. The Fair Play initiative exists for a reason and is included (possibly appendixed) in the most current edition of the Laws of The Game. If Spurs wish to act without morals or respect for their fellow professional as a club then that's their perogrative but it shows a distinct lack of class for a club with such a steeped tradition and I believe that is the real bone of contention here.
Last edited by Karlos; 22/04/2006 at 11:19 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
The fact remains he wasn't bitching over a decision by the referee (read or listen to his commnts again), he's rightfully arguing over the blatant denial of Spurs management of the injury to our player (who was still having to recieve treatment when we actually equalised 20 minute s later).
According to the interviews I've watched with Jol, Wenger & Henry - Spurs are claiming they didn't see the incident which the tape clearly proves otherwise. Carrick & Davids have told Henry (according to him) that they weren't aware of the incident and if they had they would have put the ball out. So Spurs themselves are secretly admitting they should have put the ball out without really admitting to it. It's a cop out.
Arsenal, many will remember scored against Sheff United in a very similar fashion but believed that scoring in such a unsporting manner was wrong for the club's image and the image of the game despite being deemed good. At least Arsenal's advantage was accidental and subsequently apologised for.
Fat chance of any type of honesty down the seven sisters road.
The problem is not with the 'play until you hear a whistle' mentality, the problem is 'playing with two men lying injured' while the opposition knowingly exploit it. That will always be unsporting behaviour in my eyes no matter what team is invloved with it.
Had the shoe been on the other foot it would have been the most disgraceful action for a big club and evidence of Arsenal's apparent love for cheating. They would have been right, for once.
Last edited by Karlos; 22/04/2006 at 11:29 PM.
Foot.ie - NFL Fantasy Football Champion, 2006!
But you'd still be happy that Arsenal got a result. Having watched the highlights on Match of the Day again both players were fine. They paused the run up to the goal a few times showing the Arsenal players getting up. Carrick seems a nice bloke, he would have put the ball out if he thought there was reason to. This would be a non-issue if Arsenal got the ball and the match would have been continued as normal.
On the point of stats. I remember seeing Spurs having a 6-2 advantage in shots and 60% possession at one point in the match. Goals change games and Spurs dominated for most of the game up until their goal.
These things even themselves out over the course of a season (well usually). There is no rule against playing on until the referee's whistle is blown and there is no rule against taking a quick freekick when the opposition aren't expecting it. The opposition may not like it but that's football.
BTW - If this was a player truely injured on the ground I'd probably be slating Spurs right now but the players might aswell have tripped over their own shoe laces. It was clear they were getting to their feet so there was no need to put the ball out.
I have a terrible memory but I remember Ireland showing unsportsmanship by playing on when a player was down in the Euro qualifiers. We got a goal. It didn't stop me celebrating but this case is different, Carrick thought (correctly) that the players were fine.
Also, Jol said he didn't see it, he didn't say his players didn't see it.
I am surprised that there is even any discussion here on the Spurs goal.
apart from Davids hit in a peach of a cross for Robbie to tap home.
Eirebhoy has described the incident simply and accurately, like Giles would have done
Did I not see one of the Arsenal players sitting on the deck, straining his neck to see where the ball was then clutch his leg and fall back down again.
The rest is irony at its best.
Wenger "They lie when they say they didn't see it. I can't believe they didn't see it. Of course they lie," he said."
What an ironic comment from Wenger. Its amazing how he never sees these things when it works to the advantage of his team. Wenger is the same as Ferguson and Mourinho - a fcuking sore loser.
I've become p!ssed off with players putting the ball out of play when opposition players are clearly not injured. Play to the whistle. We scored a late goal against Albania in June 2003 after we refused to give the ball back and rightly so because the Albanians were cheating b@stards that day.
Eirebhoy has described the incident perfectly. If Arsenal had scored from a similar incident I don't think Karlos would be on this forum complaining. Sour grapes Karlos. Even Thierry Henry was honest in his assessment of the incident after the game.
I actually had respect for Wenger before this game. Now I just think he is an unsporting pr!ck. I hope either Villareal or Barca do a job on Arsenal and Spurs get the 4th place which they rightly deserve.
Last edited by TheJamaicanP.M.; 23/04/2006 at 1:12 AM.
"Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe." Dillo
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