Spurs/Arsenal Champions League Spot?

[geysir]

Am I right in thinking that Wenger actually went halfway to the Spurs bench but Jol wasn't there to shake hands, so he went down the tunnel instead? Jol's got to be culpable here.

Scene 3 Act 2
Wenger went straight down the tunnel, head down.
Jol was not in the camera picture.
It didn't look like a handshake was in order.

Earlier, probably his deeper emotions were unhinged by the shock after sudden restoration of vision allowing him to witness an actual incident.

I think he has moved up the pecking order to be be invited onto the RTE panel. We might have one of those RTE moments if Giles says to him ' I don't agree there Arsene, I think you're lying'.

[Marked Man]

Martin struggles with the truth but he's not a LIAR!

Jol to the BBC "'I was going to the referee and shook hands with him."

Jol to Skysports "I hate it when I'm right and I offer somebody a handshake and they walk away. That's very difficult to take."

Apology, my arse!

Over and done with now however - Arsenal have a big European Game tomorrow and Spurs have an exciting episode of Eastenders to watch.

Time to move on.

Take a look at all your posts in about a week, when you've calmed down, Karlos. It ain't pretty.

[Stuttgart88]

James Lawton is spot-on in his assessment of Wenger in today's The Independent:

http://sport.independent.co.uk/footb...icle359943.ece

I haven't cut & pasted the whole article - it's long and its format on the web makes it difficult to cut & paste.

[NeilMcD]

Have to say Karlos you are usually spot on most things on the site but I agree you have got a bit carried away with this incident. But from my personal point of view its good to see Spurs up there competing with Arsenal in the league. I am sure the informative posts will come back soon.

[Dodge]

James Lawton is spot-on in his assessment of Wenger in today's The Independent:

http://sport.independent.co.uk/footb...icle359943.ece

I haven't cut & pasted the whole article - it's long and its format on the web makes it difficult to cut & paste.

You shouldn't do it anyway, the link is good enough.

BTW lads, I'm not re-reading this thread but has it been confirmed hat will happen if Arsenal win the CL and Spurs get 4th place. Have they changed the rules after Liverpool's "concession" this season?

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, rules have changed. Spurs would go into UEFA Cup.

[NeilMcD]

Although there is talk that Spurs are going to contest this. However I dont agree they should change the rules. Whatever the rules are at the start of the season, that should be the rules at the end. If that means Spurs missing out due to Arsenal winning it than so be it.

[Dodge]

Thanks for that

[NeilMcD]

[QUOTE=KarlosIRL]Martin struggles with the truth but he's not a LIAR!



Over and done with now however - Arsenal have a big European Game tomorrow and Spurs have an exciting episode of Eastenders to watch.

QUOTE]
Ahh I think Spurs will watch the Arsenal game and learn from Villareal how you can finish fourth in your league and then go on to get to the Semi final of the Champions League. As Robbie said if Spurs get there, there iis no reason why that should not aim to do a Villareal.

[Karlos]

I'm happy to say, I've read over all my posts and everyone elses while I was at it I might add. I have absolutly no regrets about anything I have said - I've called it as I've seen it and as I've heard it - not as how the media told me. I don't believe I've intentionally offended anyone in the process but if I have then I apologise wholeheartedly..

I have used quotes and/or examples extensively to back up my argument & explain my reasoning which no one has to agree with. I've intentionally not gone for what I conceive as openly bias driven media articles to back up my claims, I've gone to the source. I've quoted Wenger, Jol, Carrick, Henry, Warnock, Poll, Bruce to name just a few. If direct quotes from the people invloved in all the incidents is not informative enough for some, then there is little more I can do. I believe it's my differing opinion and not the lack of information that some are having difficulty with.

On the read back I also noticed there are some issues I've raised that have yet to be discussed here or defended in the manner that the goal has. That ship has sailed now but I wasn't surprised to not see them adressed.

To call my posts unpretty in the face of some of the posts here with wild accusations of cheating, diving and myopia without backing it up with anything (not a single quote in some instances even after it was requested) is disappointing I feel. My posts are without question passionate and if my passion offends then I apolgise. I love the game and particulary Arsenal but I won't make any arguments that I don't feel I can back up or explain as to why I think like that. Can everyone on the thread, say the same? The read back suggests otherwise for some, in my opinion.

I will not toe the line with the media spin on any footballing issue for the sake of it. Football is about opinions and I've expressed mine and explained my thinking as have a select few here.

So for the very very very last time on this issue, and in as calm a manner as I have ever been in, my humble opinion is:

Do I think the ball should have gone out of play? Yes
Do I think it's the sporting thing to do? Yes
Did Spurs overall perfromance deserve a point? Yes
Do I now accept that Carrick would have put the ball out under normal circumstances? Yes
Was Wenger wrong to call Jol a Liar publically? Yes
Did Martin Jol lie about any of the incidents on Saturday? Yes
Is this the result that will cost Arsenal the Champions League place? No
Is the 4th place spot gone now? No
Will I be watching Eastenders Tonight? No (this one's just a little bit of fun by the way!)

[NeilMcD]

Great post Karlos. Fair play.

[Stuttgart88]

To call my posts unpretty in the face of some of the posts here

Maybe they were getting confused with your photo on your blogsite. That certainly is unpretty

Fingers crossed for tonight. Arsene has made me nervous all of a sudden. He showed signs of stress on Saturday & I'm hoping they were only temporary.

I, for one, admire your enthusiasm, be it for Arsenal, Ireland and just about everything else you post about. I don't always agree mind, but so what?

[jebus]

To be perfectly honest I think the arguments earlier of, unsporting behaviour is not in the rulebook is quite frankly disgusting, not even in regards to this situation, but in regards to any football match. In my opinion if a player, opposition or not, is down and you have the ball, you put it out to make sure the player in question is okay. So Eboue turned out fine in this particular incident, what if he had snapped an ankle for instance, would it still have been perfectly acceptable for Spurs to carry on and score? I don't see how any Spurs player, or even those bastions of medicine, a referee can tell whether a player on the ground holding his league needs attention or not. Unsporting behaviour, whether it is diving, stampi8ng, or not putting the ball out is what gives football its terrible name amongst the media and fans for being a scummy game, played by scum and followed by scum, and is what needs to be stamped out (pardon the pun).

And again I'm not an Arsenal fan, although I do appreciate the type of football Wenger has brought to the English game, and I do think he went over the top at the pre-match conference, but then again he's an Arsenal fan, who have wrongly lost two important points because of a dubious decision, so he was bound to be fired up

[NeilMcD]

Sorry what was the dubious decision that lost them 2 points. Spurs did not break any rule and the referee let play go on.

[geysir]

Martin struggles with the truth but he's not a LIAR!

Jol to the BBC "'I was going to the referee and shook hands with him."

Jol to Skysports "I hate it when I'm right and I offer somebody a handshake and they walk away. That's very difficult to take."

Apology, my arse

The Sky sports quote does not support your accusation of Jol as a liar.
It is taken from
http://home.skysports.com/list.asphl...enger&channel=
There are a series of seperate quotes.
It obviously (to me) reads as Jol was not going to offer a handshake to Wenger in case Wenger refused and walked away.There is no lie, no contradiction.

I will not toe the line with the media spin on any footballing issue for the sake of it. Football is about opinions and I've expressed mine and explained my thinking

Karlos, you did made a comment about so called neutrals here, I asked you to find any source anywhere outside the arsenal box to support your opinion that Spurs goal was unsporting. The media was a suggestion. I don't expect you to get your opinions from the media, I just asked if you could find any to support your opinion.

[Karlos]

Maybe they were getting confused with your photo on your blogsite. That certainly is unpretty

There isn't a quote in the world I could use as defence for that pic! It has been changed recently, nothig to do with your comments however I might add!

Fingers crossed for tonight. Arsene has made me nervous all of a sudden. He showed signs of stress on Saturday & I'm hoping they were only temporary.

I, for one, admire your enthusiasm, be it for Arsenal, Ireland and just about everything else you post about. I don't always agree mind, but so what?

Poxy peformance tonight but performances rarely matter in cup competitions. I'd settle for a poxy win in the final too. I know we are a much better team than that.

Might be my aul bias again but thought the penalty was very harsh. Clichy never takes his eye off the ball and the lad throws himself like a sack of spuds. Justice was done I feel. Villereal had a few decent chances that they might have stuck away but that's cup football as Man Utd found out in the FA Cup Final last year.

Best of all is the 10 clean sheets. Impossible to imagine as little as 6 months ago that this team would hold the best defensive record ever inthat competition . A credit to Jens to who also tonight claimed the record of longest without conceeding. He has been immence all year and has been my player of the year for a long time now.

Roll on Paris!

Win or lose, this team and it's manager have proven so much to me this year. It's been a struggle all year but I'm certain it will have been worth it and the benefit will be seen in years to come.

[Stuttgart88]

Jaysus, that was one of those "watch from behind the sofa" matches. It was a bit like watching Ireland in Israel, just feeling that impending doom was around the corner. A few years ago I braked a little too hard on a very wet road, approaching traffic lights where an old couple were waiting at a red light in their car. I aquaplaned for about 30 yards with no sign whatsoever of slowing down. I watched in what seemed like slow motion as the old couple's car just got nearer & nearer. Miraculously, about two feet from their bumber my tires suddenly caught the road and I stopped inches from their car. That was like watching Arsenal last night. It was a certain disaster panning itself out in a painfully slow manner, but somehow it was avoided just at the end.

I think the sheer scale of the occasion paralysed Arsenal. Their game is all about sharp, quick, accurate passing & last night their passes had no "zip". Everything was lethargic & it gave Villareal time to close down and, far too often, intercept. I can't believe Arsenal didn't create one single chance before Henry's 1-on-1 near the end. Again, I honestly don't think Wenger's outburst at the weekend helped the players get settled for this match but WHO CARES????

Was it a penalty? Harsh, but Clichy gave the referee every reason to give it. He had no chance of winning the ball in the air so he should have stayed on his feet. What angered me though was when, 2 or 3 mins earlier, Franko (?) just threw himself onto the ground behind Campbell right in front of Fr. Dick Byrne, sorry, Valentin Ivanov. If I was the ref I'd have made a note of the dive and only given any subsequent penalty if it was absolutely stonewall, which this one wasn't. Watching Jose Mari crumpling onto the ground made me squirm.

Apart from the penalty I thought Clichy was superb. Arsenal should bag what they can get for Ashley Cole.

I actually felt Lehmann would save it. He's been colossal all year. He has redeemed himself for the TWO blunders against Chelsea which in my opinion cost Arsenal the CL two years ago.

Arsenal were pants on the night, no doubt, but it's hard to argue that the team which won 7 out of 8 in qualifying, kept 9 (10?) consecutive clean sheets, beat Real Madrid & Juventus in the knockout stages, played entertaining football through most of this and has only conceded 2 goals isn't worthy of a place in the final. Karlos mentioned that the better team doesn't always go through in cup football - just ask Bayern Munich and also Inter Milan in MUFC's CL winning run.

Bring on Barcelona. I think Milan would be a tougher opponent for Arsenal to overcome. At least Barcelona will give up some chances & it'd be fascinating to see how Gilberto copes with Ronaldinho. For all their brilliance I think Barcelona aren't as methodical and cynical as Milan can be.

I should add that Arsenal have avoided (so far) being tripped up by their European Nemesis: Spanish clubs. Valancia twice & Zaragoza. Barcelona are Catalan so they don't count

[OwlsFan]

Good description of the game. Playing one man up front usually means the ball comes back a lot, particularly if that one man wasn't on his game, which Henry wasn't last night.

Some people might say Arsenal were lucky but you got to look at the chances created over the 2 games and Arsenal probably shaded it in that regard. Arsenal played a defensive game and hoped to hit them on the break and it didn't work. Hleb gave the ball away too much as did most of the others. Not long ago Lehmann was dropped by Arsenal - now he's the hero. It's a funny old game.

The peno - it was one like O'Shea against Israel (and the foul on Quinn in Korea by Spain) since outside the box they'd be given 95% of the time. Inside the box about 10% of the time so Arsenal were unlucky in that regard.

What does this say about the Premiership - two of their less fancied teams have made it to the CL League Final in successive seasons. Wonder what the poison dwarf Dunphy will say about that since when Chelsea were knocked out by Barca he used that as a stick to beat the Premiership.

[Roadend]

Good aul Arsene, how quickly he forgets....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...al/4523051.stm

[geysir]

Good aul Arsene, how quickly he forgets....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...al/4523051.stm

What Arsene is really saying there is that if Arsenal are not good enough to finish in the top 4 in the EPL then they are not good enough to win the CL.

I couldn't stop watching Ken Doherty at the snooker, gripping stuff, so I only watched the highlights of the CL s/f.
I thought it was a penalty but only just. Jose was going for the ball and got a fair whack before collapsing.
The penalty build up was bit like High Noon. Riquelme looked like he wished he wasn't the one.
I wasn't bothered who won, no Irish players on view.
My preference is for the CL winner to come out of the game tonight, leaves open a higher possibility of more Irish players in the CL group stage next season with Celtic and Spurs