New clubs

[SunnySweeney]

[QUOTE=sirhamish

BTW is your handle related to the famous Cork player Sonny Sweeney?? Just curious.[/QUOTE]

Yes it is in homage to that great LOI midfield dynamo- but like many Hibs and Celtic supporters we follow Cork City now

[hamish]

Presuming the Irish League and EL don't ever amalgamate how about this......eh....fantasy league in.........eh.........2012? - based on today's data

Premier
Cork City, Derry City, Shelbourne, UCD, Bohemians, St. Pats., Longford Town, Sligo Rovers, Waterford United, Dublin City, Drogheda United, Bray Wanderers.

First Division North:
Athlone Town, Finn Harps, Monaghan United, Galway United, Dundalk, Meath County, Mayo County, Roscommon County, Mullingar/Westmeath X!.

First Division South:
Cobh Ramblers, Kerry County, Tipperary County, Wexford County, Laoise County, Kilkenny City, Limerick, Shamrock Rovers, Kildare County,

Leave the smaller competitions - Provincial Cups, League Cups for pre-season mini-tournaments to help get clubs match fit for Europe and the upcoming season.
All Divisions: One home and one away game for each club, plus FAI Cup no replays of games in that - on the day results.
Top Two teams in Div. 1 North v Top Two teams in Div 1 South in a mini-league - home and away games.
Top two teams in this mini-league promoted/Bottom two in Premier demoted.
Third and fouth play third and fourth from the Premier in two semi finals and a final. Winner occupied remaining Premier Division spot.

Simple formula and not leaves out an overdose of league games in all divisions.

The above county teams then have six years to improve facilities with the help of FAI and government monies, planning advice from economists, marketeers and with an active role given to the local football associations who'd have local knowledge.

There's a true nationwide league and the new county clubs have the opportunity to play in the FAI Cup too.

Just a thought at 2.50am in the morning but I feel, if the FAI REALLY want to generate a true nationwide league then the above makes it simple for even them to understand.

One last thing, if, say, eg. Tipperary couldnt make it, then you have St. Michael's or Clonmel as an alternative.
Like Australia, this would take leadership from the top, have local associations and clubs in full involvement and cut out the need to drop any club unless that club starts to break the licence rules already established since Genesis.

We're not such a small poverty ridden country that we couldn't rise to that challenge and put away any petty differences to do the above. It's completely achieveable.

[CollegeTillIDie]

we were sponsored by Woodies, so its your facts are out son.
PC bailed on the gate after all the bunging came to light and decided to move rovers to tallaght but quickly lost interest. no sponsorship involved.

Well Alan Mc Grath I think his name was , of Premier Computers was on the board of Shamrock Rovers , and Rovers offices were in the Premier Computers HQ before Joe Colwell became Chairman ,..... so you tell me there was no money involved? Get a grip!

[CollegeTillIDie]

Presuming the Irish League and EL don't ever amalgamate how about this......eh....fantasy league in.........eh.........2012? - based on today's data

Premier
Cork City, Derry City, Shelbourne, UCD, Bohemians, St. Pats., Longford Town, Sligo Rovers, Waterford United, Dublin City, Drogheda United, Bray Wanderers.

First Division North:
Athlone Town, Finn Harps, Monaghan United, Galway United, Dundalk, Meath County, Mayo County, Roscommon County, Mullingar/Westmeath X!.

First Division South:
Cobh Ramblers, Kerry County, Tipperary County, Wexford County, Laoise County, Kilkenny City, Limerick, Shamrock Rovers, Kildare County,

Leave the smaller competitions - Provincial Cups, League Cups for pre-season mini-tournaments to help get clubs match fit for Europe and the upcoming season.
All Divisions: One home and one away game for each club, plus FAI Cup no replays of games in that - on the day results.
Top Two teams in Div. 1 North v Top Two teams in Div 1 South in a mini-league - home and away games.
Top two teams in this mini-league promoted/Top two in Premier demoted.
Third and fouth play third and fourth from the Premier in two semi finals and a final. Winner occupied remaining Premier Division spot.

Simple formula and not leaves out an overdose of league games in all divisions.

The above county teams then have six years to improve facilities with the help of FAI and government monies, planning advice from economists, marketeers and with an active role given to the local football associations who'd have local knowledge.

There's a true nationwide league and the new county clubs have the opportunity to play in the FAI Cup too.

Just a thought at 2.50am in the morning but I feel, if the FAI REALLY want to generate a true nationwide league then the above makes it simple for even them to understand.

One last thing, if, say, eg. Tipperary couldnt make it, then you have St. Michael's or Clonmel as an alternative.
Like Australia, this would take leadership from the top, have local associations and clubs in full involvement and cut out the need to drop any club unless that club starts to break the licence rules already established since Genesis.

We're not such a small poverty ridden country that we couldn't rise to that challenge and put away any petty differences to do the above. It's completely achieveable.

Brilliant....Sir Hamish for the CEO job in the FAI... Delaney out!

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well there used to be two LOI clubs in Cork CITY back in the day when there was Evergreen and Cork Athletic who became Celtic and Hibs respectively, and then when Hibs folded in 1976, despite finishing 4th in the table,
( financial mismanagment of a monumental order) they were replaced by Albert Rovers/ Alberts/Cork United who folded in 1982( went bust financially). Celtic were expelled from the League in 1979 ( monumental financial mismanagement...I see a pattern here).

AND FOR TWO YEARS FOLKS THERE WAS NO EL/LOI FOOTBALL IN THE REPUBLIC'S SECOND LARGEST CITY.

In 1984 Cork City were formed and in 1985 Cobh Ramblers were admitted to the LOI. Despite Cork City almost going bust on not one but two occasions and Ramblers relying on friendly matches with MAN UTD Youth teams organised by their benefactor old boy Roy Maurice, we have had two teams in Greater Cork for more than 20 years and long may that continue!

As regards new clubs.... has anyone mentioned Navan as a particular venue? They could attract potential support from all over Meath and possibly as far away as South Cavan. To get back to Leeside......

There have been rumours of a second Cork club being formed with former players from both Hibernians and Celtic supposedly fronting various consortia. One was rumoured to be based in Bishopstown and was going to be led by former Hibs and Celtic player Carl Humphries but it didn't make it to the level where they were in a position to apply to join the EL. There was an attempt to relaunch soccer in Thurles in 1986 or 1987 .
Sporting Club Thurles even played UCD Reserves in a Friendly on one of the minor pitches at Belfield, but they were forced to "borrow" three of our lads in order to play the game and the effort fizzled out.

[NY Hoop]

[QUOTE=SunnySweeney]

Turners Cross, Flower Lodge and The Mardyke were all on the south side. There is no football ground on the northside.If you are traveling by bus to Turners Cross for instance it is a hike down from the northside. It is also a peculiar mental leap for a lot of northsiders to come down. (I’ll get shot down for saying that)

You could have two viable clubs in Cork if one club ( HIBS Please !! ) had a ground somewhere in the northside - in Blackpool for instance. If CCFC ever moved to somewhere more central their crowds would be much bigger.

Hike?! Cork is a hardly a huge city. I always walk out to the x when we're down. IMO dont think there would be a market for 2 clubs. Remember being in Bishopstown in front of 200. All very well saying that now when cork are doing well.........

KOH

[Bluebeard]

Excellent plan Sir Hamish, would be a good basis to build into an... wait for it... All-Ireland League (well, no-one has mentioned it in the last twelve or fifteen posts)

First Division South:
Cobh Ramblers, Kerry County, Tipperary County, Wexford County, Laoise County, Kilkenny City, Limerick, Shamrock Rovers, Kildare County,

One last thing, if, say, eg. Tipperary couldnt make it, then you have St. Michael's or Clonmel as an alternative.

I don't really know too much about the possibility of a Laois team (cannot really imagine it to be honest), but let me be the first to say I don't really know what things are like in Laois football (long may that be the case ). I think that Arklow Town or a Carlow Town side might be a better choice. If I remember correctly, Clonmel do seem to have a lot of their stuff in order.

As for Cork Hibs (thanks for the bit of history collegetilidie, btw, any idea why teh other team were they called the Alberts), of course you are right, now is not the time, but I would like to see them back in due course - not at the expense of the other two local sides.... Ahhh, daydreams

[hamish]

Thanks CTID and Bluebeard - I mentioned Navan allright - see earlier posts in this thread. I don't know whether you two are winding me up or not though. LOL
I'd forgotten Arklow Town's excellent set-up. How would their involvement have on Bray Wanderers - do the latter get any support from Wicklow county?
There used to be a strong club in Carlow town called Barrow Rovers years ago but I don't know what the situation is there now.
Portlaoise has a fine set up in Rossleighan Park on the Tullamore road and could be developed into a fine stadium. They played Home Farm there in an FAI Cup tie many years ago too. Haven't seen the ground since circa 1999 but I believe they've improved it even more since then. I don't know if they could manage an EL set-up on their own TBH - they do have terrific officials as far as I can remember. Before I forget, Portloaise have a groundsman (he plays too) who's the spitting image of Paul McGrath - not as tall but incredibly similar.

I can't understand why the FAI isn't even exploring the avenues I suggested. If I can conjure them up from my experiences, WTF are they doing up there?? Is there any dialogue going on or do the FAI officials only meet local associations at awards presentations dinners??

CTID - you brought it all back when you mentioned the Hibs/Celtic situation and yeah, Sporting Club Thurles - remember all that too. Dark days for the league but once Thurles economy took a battering, football there at EL level was doomed.

[Saint Tom]

in reference to kevin doyle sir hamish, he had a hugely succesful spell at Inchicore until his signed contract disappeared when the fat controller went down to "Da Real Capital". mr wallace no doubt had some input in that saga.



the lad was class then btw; still feel agrieved he was poached as soon as dolan left us and moved to cork.

"Dolan's Rent Boy.. Dolan's Rent Boy oh oh oh oh!"

[soccerc]

Soccerc would know the full details of the Pats merger - but I have a sneaky suspicion that St Pats own the Francis facilities now (though I could well be wrong). I would also be very surprised if they did have a decent 3,500 all-seater stadium,

What merger Steve? you mean that stupidity of 2001 that saw St Francis leave the league to form a so called SPAISFFC. Don't make me laugh.

As for Pats owning the St Francis facilities, not a chance it it stillowned lock stock and barrell by the club whi are on the ascendency competing with 13 teams in schoolboy football and two sides in the LSL.

BTW John Hyland Park doesn't even have one spectator seat never mind 3500.......................

[hamish]

in reference to kevin doyle sir hamish, he had a hugely succesful spell at Inchicore until his signed contract disappeared when the fat controller went down to "Da Real Capital". mr wallace no doubt had some input in that saga.



the lad was class then btw; still feel agrieved he was poached as soon as dolan left us and moved to cork.

"Dolan's Rent Boy.. Dolan's Rent Boy oh oh oh oh!"

Remember that well Saint Tom but I was really honing in on his Wexford roots and the viability of a county team there with players of his class coming from under age "soccer" there.

[bigmac]

How about a bit of blue sky thinking. Let's take Tipperay for example, How about if a Tipperary County team playing games in Clonmel, Cooke Park and Peake Villa's ground in Thurles? Register the three of them as home grounds. Peake are doing great work in improving their set up while Clonmel and St. Michael's already have fine grounds.
Ditto a Mayo County team playing in either of the Castlebar grounds, Ballina, Ballyglass and Manulla - all amazing grounds.
Offaly County could play in Tullamore while Kerry County could alternate between Tralee and Killarney.
Laoise County could base themselves in Portlaoise while Wexford County could use their best grounds in Wexford, New Ross and Enniscorthy.

It sounds good and the principle is sound enough, but is there really the population in the southeast for example to have a friday night where there are EL games on in Waterford, Clonmel, Kilkenny and New Ross, all within 45 minutes of each other? There's barely enough there to support Waterford and Kilkenny at the moment, without adding in another 2 teams.

When Athlone were in the premier Division in the 90s we played Northend United from Wexford in the Leinster Cup and had a devil of a job beating them. I was amazed at the fine players they had and can't understand why a few of them weren't snapped up by say, Waterford, Bray or Kilkenny. (Kildare County didn't exist then).

Let's just say that some of the people involved in Wexford soccer are not fans of Waterford United at all, but that's another story.
The main problem here as I see it, is that the junior leagues are not funnelling players into the EL. Every junior league club should have a link with a nearby senior club, preferably an EL one, but until the two systems are linked, football won't progress in this country. Before we start talking about senior teams and expanding the EL, it's vital that we start to gather schools, underage, junior league, senior league, EL and FAI under one roof and set out a plan whereby the best young players are actively pointed at the EL as the apex of soccer in Ireland. This will only happen is links are developed from an early age and kids grow up wanting to play for their local EL team.

[hamish]

It sounds good and the principle is sound enough, but is there really the population in the southeast for example to have a friday night where there are EL games on in Waterford, Clonmel, Kilkenny and New Ross, all within 45 minutes of each other? There's barely enough there to support Waterford and Kilkenny at the moment, without adding in another 2 teams.


Let's just say that some of the people involved in Wexford soccer are not fans of Waterford United at all, but that's another story.
The main problem here as I see it, is that the junior leagues are not funnelling players into the EL. Every junior league club should have a link with a nearby senior club, preferably an EL one, but until the two systems are linked, football won't progress in this country. Before we start talking about senior teams and expanding the EL, it's vital that we start to gather schools, underage, junior league, senior league, EL and FAI under one roof and set out a plan whereby the best young players are actively pointed at the EL as the apex of soccer in Ireland. This will only happen is links are developed from an early age and kids grow up wanting to play for their local EL team.

First paragraph - I can only guess that people will gravitate to their local side Bigmac. I suppose the fixtures could arranged to avoid too many local matches/teams clashing at the same time, My proposal is of course not next nigh or near perfect just an idea as to how the EL could be expanded. I mean, Longford is only about 45 minutes from Athlone and vice versa but 99% of Longford fans will support Longford and ditto Athlone. Galway and Athlone are an hour apart - same story.

Second paragraph - I emphasised that expanding EL would involve those in junior and all levels of football - see other posts I made above where I made those points so I totally agree with you. I have no doubt that funnelling young players towards their local club is far better than fecking them of to the UK at 14 or 15. I know one parent around here who brought his 14 year old son to a number of English clubs a few years ago - drove over via the ferry and went from club to club hawking him around the place. I fcuked him out of it for doing this. Needless to say, the young lad's hopes were dashed and he doesn't play anything now.

Yep, we're on the same wavelength alright but the most serious thing is that the FAI doesn't seem to have any plan whatsoever on this. That amazes me. I have a report from the FAI here FROM 1972 which advocated similar plans so my idea is not exactly a new idea - only they went more for towns rather than counties. David Andrews TD and suchlike were involved with this -must dig it out and have a gawk at it again.

Sad to hear about the Waterford/Wexford situation - even more reason for Wexford to have their own club perhaps.

[anto eile]

the idea of deliberately using 3 home grounds is ridiculous

[monkey magic]

yeah have to say, for some kind of stability, a club would need to be bedded into its local community, cant see this happening if the club was playing games all over the place...
but there is definately potential for clubs in some of the towns mentioned such as castlebar, clonmel, tralee and carlow, but as for mullingar, hmmm.. its only a half an hour from here(meaning longford of course) and about the same from athlone and while i would welcome another derby, you would have to say there are other areas where el football has no presence and these would have to get priority in any kind of expansion

[Martinho II]

longford town are making a very strong effort to get supporters from other counties-eg west co cavan mullingar rathowen, carrick on shannon,mohill,roscommon,castlerea,strokestown,tul sk.

our major problem at the moment is gettin the townies out of their barstools-a good support base would be all over co longford but not the town itself!

interesting to see if the attendances improve over the cumin season!

[hamish]

the idea of deliberately using 3 home grounds is ridiculous

Why?? It's done here in Gah and rugby. isn't it?? I think there are cases in Europe where it happens too. Panathinaikos, Lille among others do it. You'd be amazed how people will not travel out of their "own patch" to see a game.
For example, the Galway Gaelic teams play many of their matches in Pearse Stadium. Before that, games were shared between Tuam (football) and Beeslow/Loughrea (hurling and football). Crowds have dipped since they based themselves in Salthill.

It's a new idea for Ireland ok but we have to open ourselves to new ways - espacially when we're talking about newly formed clubs with no tradition of having a home base.

[hamish]

yeah have to say, for some kind of stability, a club would need to be bedded into its local community, cant see this happening if the club was playing games all over the place...
but there is definately potential for clubs in some of the towns mentioned such as castlebar, clonmel, tralee and carlow, but as for mullingar, hmmm.. its only a half an hour from here(meaning longford of course) and about the same from athlone and while i would welcome another derby, you would have to say there are other areas where el football has no presence and these would have to get priority in any kind of expansion

I honestly would doubt if Tralee/Clonmel/Carlow could survive on their own unless the club had a county name like Kildare County.
Trouble with Mullingar is that it's a very divided soccer town - two clubs who don't like each other, mentor wise.

[monkey magic]

I honestly would doubt if Tralee/Clonmel/Carlow could survive on their own unless the club had a county name like Kildare County.
Trouble with Mullingar is that it's a very divided soccer town - two clubs who don't like each other, mentor wise.

the point i was making was that a new club would need to be rooted in a local area.. this is much harder to do with what your proposing hamish, as martinho said, longford town, despite being called longford TOWN have been drawing their support from all over county longford and surrounds over the past few years, i know of one man who travels from strokestown co roscommon for the home games, and my cousins and their dad travel from right on the cavan/longford border to most matches. i think the idea of them bearing the name of their county would definately benefit them, im just saying that for stability the moving around thing might not work

[hamish]

the point i was making was that a new club would need to be rooted in a local area.. this is much harder to do with what your proposing hamish, as martinho said, longford town, despite being called longford TOWN have been drawing their support from all over county longford and surrounds over the past few years, i know of one man who travels from strokestown co roscommon for the home games, and my cousins and their dad travel from right on the cavan/longford border to most matches. i think the idea of them bearing the name of their county would definitely benefit them, I'm just saying that for stability the moving around thing might not work

Yeah, maybe you've a point there MM. I suppose having games at even two different venues would p!ss fans off but I was thinking of Tipperary where it's a big county and maybe "spreading" the games about a bit. Would it also give host clubs/associations/businesses an incentive to upgrade facilities etc.
Great to hear about those travelling from all over the place to Longford Town too.
Mots county teams too wouldn't need more than one venue would they??

You just reminded me of something. Remember that bloke a few years ago who brought a load of full timers to Mullingar Town FC? I think some might have gravitated to Longford Town??
I think a Mullingar outfit would have a right battle with Tullamore, Athlone, Longford and even Portlaoise nearby = that's why I emphasized the county bit.
Like, wouldn't Offaly folks - from Banagher, Birr etc - be more inclined to support Offaly United and travel to Tullamore for EL rather than if the club was called Tullamore?? People can be very parochial but you did mention that Longford attract folks from loads of places outside the town.
I also recall that when Finn Harps first entered the LOI, two blokes from Athenry took a shine to them and followed them all over the country.