New clubs

[Na Chlairsigh]

To answer the questions regarding Harps and Donegal soccer, it's clear that there can only be one team in the county. Harps have enough trouble as it is trying to generate sponsership and finances with just one senior club, if another were to join (can't see it happening) then it would be extremely difficult to substain both.

I doubt that Fanad would move to Letterkenny, I can't see it happening at all. Trialough is about 40 minutes away from Letterkenny so there is no question of them "relocating", besides the fact that they've just spent the past few years doing up their ground with floodlights and covered standing. (and to answer your question, yes it's about 100 metres from the North Atlantic and about 50 feet from a lake that if you kick the ball over the bar it'll have a chance of getting wet) also the whole population of Fanad would make Ballybofey look like a booming metreotropolis.

Letterkenny is a different story, if rumours are to be belived about these wealthy businessmen, it would be Letterkenny Rovers that would be the preferred applicant.

As for moving Harps, some people kicked up a huge fuss of moving one mile across the river, so upping 13 miles to Letterkenny looks highly unlikely. I doubt that many teams would be willing to leave their hometown, even if it is a "two-bob village"

[dcfcsteve]

You're absolutely spot on Steve. I remember Swilly Rovers AND Fanad making EL applications over the years. How far is Fanad from Letterkenny??Isn't Trialoch (probably didn't spell their ground name right but it's something like that) right beside the sea?? This type of topic fascinates me though. Would there be resistance in Fanad to "moving" the club to Letterkenny??? Could you not have a situation like Kildare County who play in Newbridge Town's ground and the latter still function succesfully as well??

Fanad are up at the tip of Inishowen, on the Atlantic - you'll hear Fanad Head mentioned in the shipping forecast. It's about 20 miles from Letterkenny on rather rural roads.

I'd expect there would be opposition if any club was being asked to move to another location by anyone - particularly by outside interests. Fanad wouldn't realistically have a hope in hell of surviving as a senior club where they are, so if they had ambitions along those lines it would necessitate moving. Though I'm not sure if they do want to go senior or not.

What about Buncrana and Inishowen too? How would they fit in to the picture?? Do Derry City draw many fans fro the Inishowen area?? Any information you have about all that would be fascinating.

For example, do Derry City get many fans from the county? - I know the county is regarded as a Gah area but there appears to be plenty of local football clubs too.

This is an area that interests me a lot. Derry City don't get much support from elsewhere in the County, and I've often pondered why that is- particularly when people like Cork City get a lot of support from 'up the county'. I've concluded that it's to do with historical roots, ties and 'hinterland'. Cork City's historical hinterland is Cork county, so it's natural that they would get support from there. However - the city of derry's hinterland has historically been more Inishowen and east Donegal (Letterkenny to Lifford), and north west Tyrone (Strabane area), than it has County Derry. Therefore - we have fans in places like Buncrana and Strabane - but you'll struggle to find any in Limavady, and particularly in towns further to the east of the county (Dungiven, Magherafelt, Maghera). This is partly to do with 'religion' (e.g. lack of fans in Limavady and Coleraine), and party to do with soccer v GAA (e.g. Maghera and Dungiven). But the one over-riding bit is that the historical ties between the city and county of Derry are nowhere near as strong as they are between the city and East Donegal. This was particularly prevalent in the 1980's when we had fan clubs throughout Inishowen, Strabane, Lifford, Letterkenny etc.

Back to Donegal, my spell in schools footie thought me how fcuking big Donegal is. Those involved with Carndonagh CS used to tell me that it took them 1 and half hours to reach the Sligo border - the county is so long., How does that affect Harps support?? Where does the bulk of Harps support come from?

Donegal is the 2nd biggest county in Ireland (after Cork). It is also the most remote, and for its size has the worst road network. Furthermore, its edges are fringed by numerous peninsulas and bays, whilst its interior is full of Highlands. It's therefore a fecker of a county to get around full-stop ! It can take up to about 80mins to drive from Derry to Bundoran, and Carndonagh would add another 20mins or so onto that. Though the new roads round Letterkenny have chopped journey times loads.

On a separate but related issue - I've often entertained the romantic notion of an 'An Gaeltacht' team in the EL. A team made-up of Irish-speaking footballers, alternating home games between Donegal, Galway and Kerry, and looking to tap into Irish speaking support from anywhere in the country. It'd obviously never work on so many levels, but is a great wee dream Would be nice to have football properly 'as gaeilge' somewhere in Ireland.

[Speranza]

SirHamish, we have a good number of fans from Strabane in Co Tyrone as do Harps.

To my knowledge people from Co. Derry don't tend to support City, there are obviously a few but nothing big enough to have SC's organised.

Derry is a city of approx 120,000 and trying to get them to the Brandy is hard enough never mind the GAA driven county ones. Pretty happy with our average attendance of around 2,500 last year when viewed in relation to other eL figures.

**Sorry Steve didn't see your post before I typed this**

[dcfcsteve]

As for moving Harps, some people kicked up a huge fuss of moving one mile across the river, so upping 13 miles to Letterkenny looks highly unlikely. I doubt that many teams would be willing to leave their hometown, even if it is a "two-bob village"

If a Letterkenny team does enter the league, then I suspet the decision will be taken out of Harps hands for them.

The writing is on the wall now regarding the future direction of Irish football, and its going to be in-favour of population centres. In the light of that, Harps fans may find their short-sightedness regrading a 13mile shift is the thing that eventually destroys senior football for the club they love. Being objective, it is hard to come to any other conclusion.

[hamish]

Funnily enough, I do believe in the concept of two teams from the city of Cork - bring back either Hibs or the Alberts - best named Cork teams EVER!

Seriously, there appear to be plans underway on the part of Mick Wallace to build a footballing empire in Wexford - I think that there is meant to be an amazing football development somewhere possibly between Enniscorthy and Gorey on the rise. Wexford has always been a hotbed of football; North-End and Ross Celtic used to have really fine teams at different times, and the youths teams have done very well lately. I suspect that Wallace will be joining the league with a team probably within 5 years.

Otherwise, Pike Rovers would be an addition, though I wouldn't like them at the expense of Limerick, Sir Hamish's Manulla Wonders sound promising, as the sport has taken off there in a major way. There is becoming a need for a Mullingar team, as that town becomes a commuter blimp. I think a team in Tipperary wouldn't be a bad thing either (what was the cause of death for Thurles Town 1977-1982?).

I've never met the man but he has a fantastic reputation in both business and football and looks cool too. This is the kind of bloke Irish football needs.

It doesn't mean that everyone from Junior levels is brilliant either. Didn't Michael Hyland and Bernard O'Byrne have a lot to do with the development of the superb AUL set up in Clonshaugh? Sadly, they didn't cut it too well at EL level when they did "move up". I'll forgive O'Byrne the Eircom League situation. I do know that his financial plans for that ground were flying until that cnut Bertie Aherne pulled the rug from under him.

BTW what's happened to O'Byrne at Pats? Hasn't bedded in well there TBH has he? I honestly feel that his period with the FAI and the manner of his exit from same has destroyed his confidence and he's just not the same man anymore sadly. I've heard that through the grapevine too. I have a horrible feeling Brian Kerr will have a terrible job to get him self together for a future involvement even a EL level should he try to manage a club.

Some people can come back from blows like the above - some people are permanently damaged. Sad but true. One thing I found with O'Byrne - if I was p!ssed off about something related to the FAI (surprise, surprise ) you could b0llack the sh!te out of him and he'd listen and he was immensely supportive too TBF. Maybe others have found him difficult and dissapointing but TBH that's how I found him.

Maybe the Pats folk can enlighten us.

Whe I referred to Mahulla BTW i menat the club AS PART of a Mayo County set up. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

From what I can remember, Thurles Town had very few local players (some allright but not many) and they joined when the EL was really in much worse shape than it is now. They were also unfortunate that the local sugar factory closed at the same time plus a number of local business folded so there wasn't much finance available locally to fund the club. Peake Villa are flying though and I think Thurles FC are still going but only as a Junior club.

Pike have a great set up but TWO Limerick clubs?? Can't see that being successful TBH Bluebird. Maybe, like Newcastle and Beeslow, they're better remaining a hugely successful Junior club. Besides, wouldn't Pike, like Ballynanty, Fairview onoly represent a certain area of Limerick??? This brings me back to my points above. The successful local Junior clubs in an area should be involved with Limerick FC and vice versa. Maybe it's already happening. You Limerick posters will know that - didn't Limerick play in Pike's fine ground a couple of season's back???

Yeah, you had great rivalry betweeb Cork Hibs and Celtic back in the 60s and 70s but Bluebeard you know yourself that you'd end up with one struggling Cork club and the other less successful with resources spread thinner. I'd be very wary about that. A few derbies are fine but generations have passed and I don't know how a second Cork club would fit in right now. Besides, didn't Alberts pull out a good few years ago after bravely keeping the LOI flag flying for a while - didn't they change their name after a couple of seasons to Cork United??

[hamish]

Thank you so much Steve and Na Clairsigh for all that data. I was never in Fanad's ground but saw a film of it when they were in the Cup a few years ago and you could see the sea just over the boundary. I hope they had a boat handy to retrieve those footballs. LOL

Fascinating to hear the history of that plan to move Harps to Letterkenny. It's amazing the perspective one gets from people FROM the area as opposed to the bland sh!te - often poorly researched - by the media. I had a fair idea of the Derry county/city situation and always suspected that Inishowen would be more inclined to regard Derry as theri club rather than Harps.

Very similar situation as regards Beeslow. Absolutely no offence to Galway United but we would be more inclined to regard Athlone as our local club even though Beeslow is on the Galway/Roscommon border. Athlone is only 16 miles away and there is a long soccer history involving the two towns.

When we got footie going at under age levels here (again) in the late 60s, Athlone's entry to the LOI gave football a massive boost ahnd we played in many Athlone and Midlands Leagues. It was a geography thing really. Many here to worked in Athlone (and vice versa), many from the town intermarried and were in the army so there is a historical, business and social connection. TBH back then (BUT NOT NOW) the Galway city clubs didn't really want the likes of Beeslow 'cos it was too far away.

Isn't it amazing how local hostory influences the way clubs develop, interconnect etc. That's what I find the Derry/Harps/Letterkenny/Inishowen
situation fascinating.

I remember Jim Rhatigan telling me that fcuk all people involved in the Kilkenny Junior scene (players/officials etc) supported Kilkenny City. That'sa shame.

What about Waterford United? Do people from the rest of Louth (Ardee etc) support Drogheda and Dundalk??? Ditto Limerick?? I know that Longford are making great efforts to involve the county also. What about Bray and Wicklow county??? Monaghan United are also working hard at under age levels to bring more from the area into the club.

All fascinating information.

Question. Do the people involved with the FAI and EL know this information?? How can they make EL plans when they don't have a knowledge of the local scenes?? How many in the FAI - Junior and EL - work together?? Fcuk all from what I've seen in the past.

[hamish]

BTE Steve - I know about Fanad and the weather forecast thing? I used to be a geography teacher. LMAO.

You remind me of when Micky O'Connor was in his first spell as Town manager. Whenever we passed mountains en route to a match, he'd roar out loud at me (knowing he had the rest of the players as an audience) "C'mon Noel, you're supposed to be a geography teacher - you should know what mountains they are?" I'd pretend not to know and say - "those mountains? - not on the syllabus".LOL

[hamish]

If a Letterkenny team does enter the league, then I suspet the decision will be taken out of Harps hands for them.

The writing is on the wall now regarding the future direction of Irish football, and its going to be in-favour of population centres. In the light of that, Harps fans may find their short-sightedness regrading a 13mile shift is the thing that eventually destroys senior football for the club they love. Being objective, it is hard to come to any other conclusion.

Trouble is Steve we're running out of population centres big enough to support a club - that's why I suggested County clubs. Y'know. a club using one or more big towns as bases all right but with a county following. (Portlaoise as a base for Laoise County FC for example) Maybe we're saying the same thing, I suppose.

Brother in law was telling me lately that there is a catchment area of roughly 400,000 within an hour's drive of Athlone. That takes in Mullingar, Longford, Tullamore, Beeslow etc.

There are so many ways of looking at this it becomes more fascinating as we mull over it, doesn't it.

We should be running the FAI.

Before I forget what about Ennis, Clare and Shannon?? Anyone have any idea how that would pan out?? Or Carlow County??

[dcfcsteve]

Derry City v Finn Harps is probably the biggest derby outside of Dublin in terms of generating local media interest and attendance (though I'm sure the Cork v Waterford arguement will be made in its place). Even if Derry or Harps are both struggling, the game has consistently drawn a good solid crowd over the last 20 years running. When one or other or both are doing well, the attendance can be very strong.

However - I suspect strongly that a Derry v Letterkenny senior derby would be an even bigger draw. The rivalry with Harps is, to be fair, manufactured. However - there has always been a propoer sense of rivalry between Derry and Letterkenny as towns/places. People inter-mingle socially, with work, with family etc between the 2 places - unlike with Ballybofey. And increasingly so with the growth of Letterkenny in recent years. The ingredients are there for a huge rivalry.

[hamish]

Derry City v Finn Harps is probably the biggest derby outside of Dublin in terms of generating local media interest and attendance (though I'm sure the Cork v Waterford arguement will be made in its place). Even if Derry or Harps are both struggling, the game has consistently drawn a good solid crowd over the last 20 years running. When one or other or both are doing well, the attendance can be very strong.

However - I suspect strongly that a Derry v Letterkenny senior derby would be an even bigger draw. The rivalry with Harps is, to be fair, manufactured. However - there has always been a propoer sense of rivalry between Derry and Letterkenny as towns/places. People inter-mingle socially, with work, with family etc between the 2 places - unlike with Ballybofey. And increasingly so with the growth of Letterkenny in recent years. The ingredients are there for a huge rivalry.

Another thing too, the media in Donegal and Derry give great coverage to local footie as well. I think the Donegal League have a rule that each club MUST supply match reports/news etc or they're fined if they don't. Is that still the case???

As regards derbies, back in the 60s the "battle of the blues" between Limerick and Waterford was a real crowd puller. Was at a good few and they were tremendous affairs. Athlone v Galway are pretty polite affairs but there was a great rivalry between Athlone and Sligo Rovers in the past.

What about Kilkenny City and Waterford United?? Is there any friction when Cobh Ramblers and Cork City play? We know about Drogheda and Dundalk though. LOL

Funny you should say that Steve. Whenever I chatted with folks in the Ballybofey/Donegal town areas, they always stated that they felt the facilites for football where vastly superior in the north of the county than in the south. For example, St. Columba's College, Stranorlar play their games occasionally in Finn Park but usually in Finn Valley AC grounds 'cos they have no college grounds themselves. Even when schools interprovincials were held up there they also used Drumkeen United and Letterkenny for games as well as Finn Valley and Harps.

Bring it on lads - any more news from your local area. Any Tipp, Kerry and/or Wexford etc footypersons out there to add to this.

[sligoman]

watch out sligoman....you have competition

Erm, what?

[harpskid]

Another thing too, the media in Donegal and Derry give great coverage to local footie as well. I think the Donegal League have a rule that each club MUST supply match reports/news etc or they're fined if they don't. Is that still the case???

Funny you should say that Steve. Whenever I chatted with folks in the Ballybofey/Donegal town areas, they always stated that they felt the facilites for football where vastly superior in the north of the county than in the south. For example, St. Columba's College, Stranorlar play their games occasionally in Finn Park but usually in Finn Valley AC grounds 'cos they have no college grounds themselves. Even when schools interprovincials were held up there they also used Drumkeen United and Letterkenny for games as well as Finn Valley and Harps.

Yeah the Donegal League operate that system where a club is fined if no report is submitted, and to be fair, the local media here give fantastic coverage to grass-roots soccer and indeed to Harps.

Also, St Columba's do have a pitch of their own. However, they would play bigger games in Finn Park or, to a lesser extent, the Finn Valley Centre.

The interprovincials are played on those pitches you mentioned - St Patrick's Park, Drumkeen; Finn Park; Finn Valley Centre and they also use Cappry Rovers ground, which is a fine set up and should be taken on board by Junior clubs all over the country to show what some hard work and dedication can yield.

Cappry have a fully floodlit pitch, that is up there with the best of 'em and are currently in the process of building a fine club-house.

Cappry is situated on teh immediate out-skirts of Ballybofey.

Also, Steve: In an above post you mentioned that Fanad was in Inishowen - it aint.

"Fanad" is in fact a peninsula of it's own. The Fanad peninsula is separated from Inishowen by Lough Swilly and has the picturesque Mulroy Bay to the West.

[hamish]

Yeah the Donegal League operate that system where a club is fined if no report is submitted, and to be fair, the local media here give fantastic coverage to grass-roots soccer and indeed to Harps.

Also, St Columba's do have a pitch of their own. However, they would play bigger games in Finn Park or, to a lesser extent, the Finn Valley Centre.

The interprovincials are played on those pitches you mentioned - St Patrick's Park, Drumkeen; Finn Park; Finn Valley Centre and they also use Cappry Rovers ground, which is a fine set up and should be taken on board by Junior clubs all over the country to show what some hard work and dedication can yield.

Cappry have a fully floodlit pitch, that is up there with the best of 'em and are currently in the process of building a fine club-house.

Cappry is situated on teh immediate out-skirts of Ballybofey.

Also, Steve: In an above post you mentioned that Fanad was in Inishowen - it aint.

"Fanad" is in fact a peninsula of it's own. The Fanad peninsula is separated from Inishowen by Lough Swilly and has the picturesque Mulroy Bay to the West.

Is that a new pitch of their own St. Columba's have Harpskid??? or have they always had it.

Never saw Cappry's ground but it's great to hear another club have fine facilities.

I really do laugh when the Dublin media parrots on about poor facilities in football here. Just shows they don't bother their arses finding out what's out there.

Information about club facilities should be part of the FAI website (even good links from the FAI website to well run clubs would be a good idea) and clubs should have their own websites too. I know it can be hard to get people to do sites but with the web becoming more and more important - taking millions from the "traditional" media in adverts - it could be a real selling point for clubs in attracting sponsors. look at the amount of people who come here from every part of the island and planet. In fact, I have made purchases based on information I have gleaned from Foot.ie posts and Foot.ie adverts and I'm sure lots more have too.

There is so much that can be achieved, locally and at FAI level, it drives me mad with frustration sometimes.

Even I knew that Fanad was a peninsula.....tut tut Steve. LOL

[Cosmo]

Derry City v Finn Harps is probably the biggest derby outside of Dublin in terms of generating local media interest and attendance

Drogs V craptown would kick its a**e

'Do people from the rest of Louth (Ardee etc) support Drogheda and Dundalk???'

A good few out the country would, not sure about as far as ardee. A good support in meath aswel ie duleek, slane, navan, etc. For the cup final, 2 buses went from a school in cavan to cheers the drogs on

[hamish]

'Do people from the rest of Louth (Ardee etc) support Drogheda and Dundalk???'

A good few out the country would, not sure about as far as ardee. A good support in meath aswel ie duleek, slane, navan, etc. For the cup final, 2 buses went from a school in cavan to cheers the drogs on

That's great to hear Cosmo. Long may that support continue.

[CollegeTillIDie]

financial irregularities that would make the italians blush. no-one complained when they asked to be removed.

Shafted by Premier Computers who withdrew their sponsorship 2/3 through a season(1995/96) and sponsored Rovers the next season(1996/97) more like. You need to get your facts sorted!

[OneRedArmy]

Sirhamish, I think you need to be clear when you describe junior clubs as having great facilities. Ie that you mean they have great facilities for a junior club.

Having been to Pike Rovers when Limerick played there, whilst the club house and changing rooms were fine and the welcome was excellent, the ground is a pitch with a fence around it. No terracing, no concrete and no cover. It brought me back to places like Abbeycarton.

[Roverstillidie]

Shafted by Premier Computers who withdrew their sponsorship 2/3 through a season(1995/96) and sponsored Rovers the next season(1996/97) more like. You need to get your facts sorted!

we were sponsored by Woodies, so its your facts are out son.
PC bailed on the gate after all the bunging came to light and decided to move rovers to tallaght but quickly lost interest. no sponsorship involved.

[hamish]

Sirhamish, I think you need to be clear when you describe junior clubs as having great facilities. Ie that you mean they have great facilities for a junior club.

Having been to Pike Rovers when Limerick played there, whilst the club house and changing rooms were fine and the welcome was excellent, the ground is a pitch with a fence around it. No terracing, no concrete and no cover. It brought me back to places like Abbeycarton.

Good point OneRed Army - I was thinking in terms of future prospects really. Yeah, Pike would not be on my future list because there is already a Limerick EL club anyway and there's rnough work to be done on Hogan Park anyway.

But some of the grounds I mentioned are well on the way to becoming grand stadiums.

For example, Mullingar have a stand and terracing, Manulla and Castlebar both have seated stands.

Should the FAI designate clubs/counties etc there would have to be many criteria which we all know about but it might be useful to have clubs that are already well established facility-wise and could be improved.

Excellent point about facilities being good as regards Junior level but I was kinda pointing a course for the future.

I would imagiine that at the very least a 500 seater stand would be necessary with concrete terracing on the other side and at at least one end of the ground. You know about all the other requirements - finance, fans, parking etc etc. If the FAI could evaluate and designate the projected clubs and then steer any finance towards these clubs/grounds whilst working with the local football organisations we'd have some progress.

At least, if the FAI could come up with some PLAN we might not be debating here up in the air, so to speak. As I stated earlier, the present set up has to be improved before any new clubs/counties join but the planning and projecting could still be done.

Not happy with the way I put all that but you might get an idea of what I'm on about. I'm afraid that if I start to cover all the angles, I'll burn out before midnight and take up too much space here.

I'm really passionate about all this. It's the area (no pun intended) of football that gets me very animated.

[LFC in Exile]

Freudian slip?

Reminds me - How do you know ET is Cork City Fan?

he looks like one.