Irish Times - Dublin clubs in historic ground deal

**BohDiddley** · 27/01/2006, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Ground sharing based on current location of Bohs & Shels makes sense as neither lcub really attracts much support from immeadiate locality.

Can Dalymount be improved to 15k as current stand only holds 3k & would be difficult to expand the other 3 sides to take even 3k each?

I think this stadium may be in lieu of Abbotstown as clearly be no need for both stadiums.

If could get 12k seats in Phibsboro would it attract Leinster for Heineken Cup games as Donnybrook only holds 7k i think...?

I heard talk of temporary ground share until Shels get new stadium completed in north dublin. Could this be still on the cards?

The mere fact that this folly is greeted with such a chorus of approval from provincial clubs, who at best couldn't give a hoot, speaks for itself.
This thing stinks from top to bottom. There is money in the system for Irish football: let it be distributed fairly, without favour and without strings.
I'm loathe to put an argument for it, but Bohs could as easily sell Dalymount for a packet at full commercial value and move to a greenfield site. Philistine as that may be, I think it would be more acceptable to many than sharing with an imposter.
I don't see why we should have our arm twisted on this one.

**thejollyrodger** · 28/01/2006, 10:35 AM

I dont really back ground sharing because when one club starts to do poorly the first thing people think of is amalagation. I dont want to become Bohs F.C and would rather stay in our own ground.

Plus the point about trying to get supporters from the same local area as bohs has been totally ignored by everyone.

A 15,000+ all seater stadium would be fantastic both for Bohs and the league but at the end of the day one of the two clubs are going to loose out. I know donabate is a bit out of the way but transportation links in the next decade should improve and so too should the population of Swords.

**CollegeTillIDie** · 28/01/2006, 10:43 AM

So what about the Dublin City/ UCD ground share? And where does that leaf
Runaround Sue FC... sorry The Wanderers? Well I knew it was one Dion song or other they were named after

**LFC in Exile** · 29/01/2006, 3:53 PM

This boils down to whether or not you believethere is a finite amount of money available to eL clubs. The eL is a poor league (in the monetary sense) and it makes no sense whatsoever to have clubs sitting on huge assets while there facilities remain poor relative to those in other sports. It makes no sense for clubs to borrow to fund ground development when there is no requirement to do so. It also makes no sense for the government to grant aid two, three or four ground developments located within five to ten miles of each other. If I was minister for sport I would flatly refuse to provide any funding to two grounds (Tolka and Dalymount) so close to each other.

And by the way, the non-Dublin based eL supporters aren't really greeting this with "a chorus of approval" - a lot don't care - but it makes sense for all clubs that when money is distributed centrally that it is spent to maximum effect. If the non-Dublin fans were being hungry about this they'd object to any money being spent in Dublin - but that's not the case. Its just that money should be spent wisely.

**anto eile** · 29/01/2006, 4:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Our chairman told us he didn't meet delaney

chairmen have been known to tell lies from time-to-time

**anto eile** · 29/01/2006, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Do the clubs really want a 15,000 seater ground? Tolka is too big as it is.

I think I'd rather a smaller ground and move big european games to Lansdown, even if it's going to be half empty for the game. A half empty stadium on a european night is better than a half empty stadium every league match.

you wouldnt fit or need 15000 seats in dalymount.residents would complain about it and that would be a can of worms.
theres 2742 seats in the jodi.400 soon to be in the shopping centre end.room for 1500 in the shed.that would mean a redeveloped connacht st would ideally have 5500 to bring the cappacity to just over 10,000. this would mean the stand runing the full length of the pitch, and at a height no bigger,even slightly smaller, than it is now
though it would also mean the gypos would lose out on 10s of thousands of euro a year in revenue form the loss of the car park
anyway its all hypothtical for the moment

**sullanefc** · 29/01/2006, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Plus the point about trying to get supporters from the same local area as bohs has been totally ignored by everyone.

Liverpool and Everton play in the same area of Liverpool and are able to attract separate supporters.

How close are Tolka and Dalymount? Less than a mile? In a big city like Dublin, I don't think it is your location that will attract supporters it's the football on the pitch. Get them going to games in the first place, get them hooked, and let them decide which team they prefer. Not telling ye what to do, just my opinion.

From the Governments point of view, it makes more sense to fund one decent ground rather than 2 that are very close to each other. Play your cards right and both clubs could have a very nice ground indeed.

**Poor Student** · 29/01/2006, 4:41 PM

In Ireland and particularly Dublin due to the small nature of our clubs it's all about location. Chances are someone living in say Donaghmede their whole life isn't going to support Pat's and attend their games regularly no matter how well they do. Our clubs generally don't have that wide proximity appeal of EPL clubs.

**sullanefc** · 29/01/2006, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

In Ireland and particularly Dublin due to the small nature of our clubs it's all about location. Chances are someone living in say Donaghmede their whole life is going to support Pat's and attend their games regularly no matter how well they do. Our clubs generally don't have that wide proximity appeal of EPL clubs.

I take your point. But the current grounds are not up to scratch and money needs to be spent on them. The Government aren't going to spend money on 6 shiny new stadiums for Bohs, Shels, Rovers, Pats, UCD and CHF are they? It makes more sense to ground share. A clubs catchement area doesn't necessarily have to be where there ground is does it? It could be their training ground is, or maybe a club shop or club bar could be set up in the clubs "area".

**Student Mullet** · 29/01/2006, 5:37 PM

Tolka Park has a capacity of about 12,000 (I'm sure someone has the correct figure). The proposed new ground will have the capacity of about 15,000. So the main benefit of this move is an increase in capacity of about 3,000.
The main cost is the loss of a stadium about a mile from the city centre.

To me the cost seems greater than the benefit. Both clubs will also end up with a fair bit of cash in the bank and will be able to pay off whatever debts they have. This, to me, seems like using a capital asset to meet current expenditure which is a classic example of bad business.

**Philo** · 29/01/2006, 5:58 PM

Shels are on their knees - they don't own Tolka and have no more income than any other non-league winning club. Debts are mounting and Mr Byrne and Mr Delaney are very good friends.

Bohs have debts and a team that sucks for Ireland but we do OWN OUTRIGHT a ground (6 acres) just one mile from O'Connell St.

The FAI and Shels are approaching Bohs with an "offer" that will "save" us from our debts by paying us a fraction of the worth to sell over 50 percent of the land that we own. FAI scare tactics are being employed to bail out Shels and monoeuvre Bohs into a situation from which we cannot control our own destiny. There is no way Dalyer can be developed into a 15,000 seat stadium due to it being hemmed in on two sides by houses, one side by a primary school and on the remaining side by a shops/appartments development.

Everything points to an ultimate move to Abbotstown for both Shels and Bohs where the clubs will be little more than FAI owned puppets as Delaney and co attempt to push into Champions League territory.

Anyone who supports these current developments has absolutely no concern for what's best for Irish football and the idea of independent clubs competing in an open and fair league. The FAI has never previously shown any interest in league matters, now they are trying to re-mould it to suit themselves.

**Student Mullet** · 29/01/2006, 6:47 PM

I presume this will have to be put to a vote of the members, Philo. Have you spoken to many? What's the feeling on the ground?

**bohs til i die** · 29/01/2006, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by sullanefc

I take your point. But the current grounds are not up to scratch and money needs to be spent on them. The Government aren't going to spend money on 6 shiny new stadiums for Bohs, Shels, Rovers, Pats, UCD and CHF are they? It makes more sense to ground share. A clubs catchement area doesn't necessarily have to be where there ground is does it? It could be their training ground is, or maybe a club shop or club bar could be set up in the clubs "area".

Groundshare isnt such a bad idea, but this pArticular deal as it stands is TOTALLY WRONG

**Marked Man** · 29/01/2006, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Chances are someone living in say Donaghmede their whole life is going to support Pat's and attend their games regularly no matter how well they do.

Why would someone living in Donaghmede support Pat's? That's on the other side of the city.

**CollegeTillIDie** · 29/01/2006, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

In Ireland and particularly Dublin due to the small nature of our clubs it's all about location. Chances are someone living in say Donaghmede their whole life is going to support Pat's and attend their games regularly no matter how well they do. Our clubs generally don't have that wide proximity appeal of EPL clubs.

I live in that Area and follow UCD that was because I went to UCD.

The only EL fans I knew growing up were 1 Rovers fan and 1 Bohs fan. Nobody else was a dyed in the wool EL fan. They were what has become the norm sadly in this country besotted with what would now be called the English Premiership. But they had one saving grace . Every year the whole group went to see one or other of Bohs or Rovers play with our dyed in the wool fans.

It is untrue to say that some of the newer parts of the city ( i.e. less than 40 years old) would en masse support any particular EL club. Shels used to have buses running from here to bring support to Tolka. And one night when UCD were playing in Tolka I availed of the bus to get there and to get home.

**CollegeTillIDie** · 29/01/2006, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

In Ireland and particularly Dublin due to the small nature of our clubs it's all about location. Chances are someone living in say Donaghmede their whole life is going to support Pat's and attend their games regularly no matter how well they do. Our clubs generally don't have that wide proximity appeal of EPL clubs.

I live in that Area and follow UCD that was because I went to UCD.

The only EL fans I knew growing up were 1 Rovers fan and 1 Bohs fan. Nobody else was a dyed in the wool EL fan. They were what has become the norm sadly in this country besotted with what would now be called the English Premiership. But they had one saving grace . Every year the whole group went to see one or other of Bohs or Rovers play with our dyed in the wool fans.

It is untrue to say that some of the newer parts of the city ( i.e. less than 40 years old) would en masse support any particular EL club. Shels used to have buses running from here to bring support to Tolka. And one night when UCD were playing in Tolka I availed of the bus to get there and to get home.

**Poor Student** · 29/01/2006, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Marked Man

Why would someone living in Donaghmede support Pat's? That's on the other side of the city.

That's the exact point I was making.

**Dodge** · 29/01/2006, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by Marked Man

Why would someone living in Donaghmede support Pat's?

because its the right thing to do...

**pete** · 29/01/2006, 11:07 PM

Wasn't this all rumoured 6 months ago as a temporary arrangement while shels built a new stadium? AFAIK shels will be homeless when tolka is sold as new stadium is years away yet. I heard before that shels would shre for 4-5 years by building a new stand which bohs would keep when they left...?

I'd be surprised if any deal was done & more than likely bohs are just humouring the FAI wishes to talk. Bohs will just come back & say they couldn't agree a deal.