Dalymount - share talks confirmed

[Raheny Red]

Bohs scum vandalise Tolka.

Poor kids are starting to get a hang of this artistic crap

(i) The Milltown Monument

(ii) Shels pitch

(iii) then the ground

http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?t=5137

[Dodge]

Home Farm played there until 1989...

[Gerrit]

Bohs scum vandalise Tolka.

Poor kids are starting to get a hang of this artistic crap

(i) The Milltown Monument

(ii) Shels pitch

(iii) then the ground

http://forum.shelbournefc.ie/chat/viewtopic.php?t=5137

Well done city council This is what happens and could even be expected. The FAI and city council think in economical terms, but football doesn't work like that. You cannot just make 100% rational decisions and expect that fans will ditch emotions and club traditions.

[gael353]

I'm a long-time proponent of thsi so I am delighted with news today. Eventually sense always prevails.

Of course it has to be a fair divvy up. The best way to handle this is for both clubs to sell their grounds (or leases or whatever) to the FAI. Then the cost of developing Dalymount is paid by the FAI and the balance is returned evenly to the clubs. Shels should not be able to make a killing. Otherwise it is just a case of them cashing in and renting another ground.

But in principle ground sharing in a superior stadium is infinitely better than both clubs trundling along with poor facilities (relative to what they could have) and/or massive and unsustainable debts.

As far as tradition goes - everything changes. Just start a new tradition.

I agree with all that LFC in Exile has to say here. Two years ago he was saying this and being slagged off by persons on this site and others for voising his opinions. So hats off to him for his forward thinking.

[Slash/ED]

Neither side will be happy with this, it will not happen smoothly.

[Dodge]

With respect, anyone who's not a fan of the clubs involved can **** off.

[chippie0001]

Seems the Bohs and Shels fans in the main don't want this. There are exceptions to every rule though.

In short we own fully 5.5 acres 10 mins from the city centre. You own a lease with about 36 years to go on it. The value of the sites to the 2 parties are vastly different if they went on sale. As a Bohs fan I would rather sell Dalymount or develop it with a builder and move elsewhere than allow it be half sold for peanuts. Remember the joy has been valued at €20m an acre so even half that means Dalymount would be worth €55m. Thats more than enough to buy a site and build a stadium and leave €20m in the bank. We don't need this groundshare at all in my view.

[BohDiddley]

Well Chippie, they do say everything has its price ... but in my view BFC is not in the property business.
The best option for the club is a refit of Dalymount along the lines of Drogheda's planned new stadium. If memory serves me, this isn't going to cost the earth and could come in within half, or in striking distance of it, of what is being offered for a shared Dalymount. Not ideal, but no strings, and we stay in Phibsboro, and John Delaney's pet club stays out on a limb.
Not as pretty looking at it from Limerick, I suppose, but, as Dodge says, why should they matter?
As I've said before, there is money teed up for Dalymount. If we can unlock half of it without selling our souls, then I for one would be happy.

[Slash/ED]

The best option for the club is a refit of Dalymount along the lines of Drogheda's planned new stadium.

Where on earth is the money going to come from?

Seems the Bohs and Shels fans in the main don't want this

Not just don't want it, but both would be bitterly opposed to it, enough to make it very very difficult to ever be a realistic idea.

[hoopy]

With respect, anyone who's not a fan of the clubs involved can **** off.

Straight to the point and imop a good call. I think it's amazing that papers start all the s*** about Rovers and Pats yet no one has approached our board yet(I can't speak for Pats). In a general concensus, would fans in general be willing to tell their respective boards that they would boycott games if they are forced to share?

[higgins]

Shels can sell Tolka to a property developer and use the funds to build a stadium elsewhere. That has been the plan for the past two years so dont come on here with your 36 year lease does not equal owning Dalymount.

Your 55million valuation of Dalymount would only go ahead if you are willing to move home... So either you move or else drop it as a football stadium is not worth half of 55 million to shels!

I no more want to share a ground with Bohs then most fans of Shels but the FAI seem to be pushing this big time. I was delighted about the move away from Tolka to a site where we can have everything under one roof but Dalymount for me is the exact same as Tolka. As a Shels fan I see no advantage in the move unless its to a FULLY rebuilt Dalymount, (ie pitch moved, 4 sides all seated, covered the whole way round, proper drainage and watering system under the pitch and so on and so on). As I see Tolka as a better stadium then Dalymount today so why would it be in our interest otherwise.

Would Bohs fans be happy to sell Dalymount and come share in Tolka? So imagine it from our side!! There are many reasons to move out of Tolka but moving to Dalymount does not solve 90% of them.

[Slash/ED]

(ie pitch moved, 4 sides all seated, covered the whole way round, proper drainage and watering system under the pitch and so on and so on).

And with the restaints around Dalymount Park even with a big budget could that be done? I fully agree, I simply don't see the attraction of Dalymount Park even aside from the sentimental aspect of it all.

[chippie0001]

Higgins, I have no difficulty moving home, my point is it is no advantage to us you being involved. If you knew anything you would also know a lease is not worth as much as a freehold when it comes to selling land. You don't want it nor do we so no reason why we have to do the FAI's bidding.

[higgins]

I dont get it either???

Its not ground sharing that annoys me its wondering why Dalymount would be any different to Tolka? or any stadium surrounded by houses already in the city. There is more room at Dalymount then Tolka but your not talking about much and the sale of the shopping centre end has put a real question make over any future large stadium I would imagine.

I would love the FAI to find both Shels and Bohs a site thats somewhat close to town ( with the help of Bertie!) where both teams could build a top class stadium. Sell up Tolka and Dalymount to the property developers take the grant money from the FAI and use all the cash to move somewhere that has training grounds and car parking space and room for further expansion.

EDIT..
Just reading your post Chippie and no there is no reason why either club should agree as it doesnt suit us but the FAI do have a point that at present all grounds in the league are going backwards! They are falling down around us and/or being sold off! That is not a long term solution.
If they want us to ground share they have to do better then lump shels into dalymount in my opinion. How good can Dalymount ever be in your opinion? Nothing against your ground but if your gonna share it may as well be to a large site.

[Slash/ED]

Higgins, I have no difficulty moving home

I'd imagine you're in a minority as far as Bohs fans are concerned there though.

I would have no difficulty moving from Tolka to a new stadium built jointly between ourselves and Bohs, as such a stadium would be a far better one than the one either of us play in at the moment especially if we could also throw in grants and the like. Once it all works out equally, and we each get one 'end' of the ground that's always ours like on the continent, I don't see a problem with that. It's an improvement for both sides and a facility to play matches in to attract fans to that we could not build on our own.

Moving to Dalymount, where such a facility from my limited knowledge of the place simply could never be built even if you leveled the place, what's the point? And then there's the whole sentimental aspect of it, a move to Dalymount I'm opposed to, but if we both built a new stadium together I wouldn't really have an issue with it.

[chippie0001]

I dont get it either???

Its not ground sharing that annoys me its wondering why Dalymount would be any different to Tolka? or any stadium surrounded by houses already in the city. There is more room at Dalymount then Tolka but your not talking about much and the sale of the shopping centre end has put a real question make over any future large stadium I would imagine.

I would love the FAI to find both Shels and Bohs a site thats somewhat close to town ( with the help of Bertie!) where both teams could build a top class stadium. Sell up Tolka and Dalymount to the property developers take the grant money from the FAI and use all the cash to move somewhere that has training grounds and car parking space and room for further expansion.

For what its worth I agree. Redeveloping Dalymount into any size of a ground will be very hard. Due to the small lanes and only really owning 3 sides to the ground I doubt you could get more than 12,000 seats in. The entire ground needs to be knocked and start again but how many seats and how long planning permission will take is debatable. Getting a site from the Government in the old Mountjoy would be a far better and viable option.

[Slash/ED]

For what its worth I agree. Redeveloping Dalymount into any size of a ground will be very hard. Due to the small lanes and only really owning 3 sides to the ground I doubt you could get more than 12,000 seats in. The entire ground needs to be knocked and start again but how many seats and how long planning permission will take is debatable. Getting a site from the Government in the old Mountjoy would be a far better and viable option.

So you're open to a move, but how would you and, in your opinion, the membership feel about moving to a new stadium jointly owned by Bohs and Shels? I'd imagine it'll be easier to swallow than us moving into Dalymount and certainly the Shels fans would find it alot more acceptable. I mean assuming a stadium jointly owned by us both, each getting our own bar facilities and all of that, would be vastly superior to one built just by one club, where is the problem? I would be in favour of something like that.

[chippie0001]

Me personally I would rather own my own stadium than share. I am not against ground sharing though if the deal was right for Bohs and made sense. This move from a financial point of view for Bohs in my view does not. There is 2 projects near Dalymount, Mountjoy and Grangegorman that are both going to be built from scratch. It would be far better to put a new 15,000 seater stadium there. Also in needs office space, car parks etc and that is something Dalymount will never have.

[Slash/ED]

Yeah I agree, and I reckon that if Bohs were looking to move out, a groundsharing deal probably would be right for Bohs and make sense, same from Shels point of view. Together and with support building from scratch in a good location we could get a, by EL terms, absolutley incredible stadium.

[thejollyrodger]

I think thats the best idea so far when i comes to ground sharing. Both clubs sell of their grounds and build a stadium together in a new site. If Dalymount is really worth the the €55 million the two clubs could have a fantastic stadium.


**edit.. i still dont want to ground share BTW