Who should get the Louth franchise?

[Roverstillidie]

On what basis is Genesis not an FAI document? On what basis is it not fact? Genesis also recommends ground-sharing - that appears to be fact (or it's being discussed at least). Genesis recommends merging the league and the FAI - that's fact. Genesis recommends "re-launching" the league - that's fact. Are you happy to dismiss this as fiction because it doesn't suit you to consider it fact?

How many phrases would you like Genesis to express what is a very simple notion in? Do you expect them to re-iterate it over and over?

None of your posts are making any sense.

PS, you have picked a 5 word phrase from genesis "population centres throughout the country" (btw 3 genesis reports, none implemented so far) and have managed to contive a machievellian scheme that sees all rural clubs, UCD and CHF rooted out of the FAI league. can you please elaborate, even a little bit, as to where you are getting this.
The fai insiting on licencing being taken seriuosly is one thing, but you are on a flight of fantasy here.
for the record, i dont trust the FAI one bit, but groundsharing is the aim of this game. you appear to have a UCD/NLSSA agenda at work here.

You are proposing this as a definite FAI scheme with no attempt to back it up. and then saying i make no sense in asking whre precisley you are getting your quotes. try harder.

[pineapple stu]

PS, you have picked a 5 word phrase from genesis "population centres throughout the country" (btw 3 genesis reports, none implemented so far) and have managed to contive a machievellian scheme that sees all rural clubs, UCD and CHF rooted out of the FAI league. can you please elaborate, even a little bit, as to where you are getting this.

I picked the phrase "Ideally, the ten clubs in the National League will be spread across the major population centres throughout the country." You might like to count the words again.

I have not said any club will be rooted out of the league - I've said some will be relegated to the First Division regardless of league position. I've already told you my source - the Genesis Report, which is the entire basis of the proposal. Incidentally, it is the second Genesis Report as far as I know, and the first on the eircom League (the other was on the FAI)

for the record, i dont trust the FAI one bit, but groundsharing is the aim of this game. you appear to have a UCD/NLSSA agenda at work here.

Again, you brought the NLSA up on this thread. I subsequently clarified the NLSA's stance. Incidentally, the haphazard poll shows 60% opposition, so I don't think it's entirely UCD either.

You are proposing this as a definite FAI scheme with no attempt to back it up. and then saying i make no sense in asking whre precisley you are getting your quotes. try harder.

Ummm...I've quoted you exact passages from FAI documents - both Genesis and the FAI proposal. I've quoted you exact passages from independent news articles. What more do you want?

[Roverstillidie]

so to sum up, your opposition to the entire FAI league is based on this one phrase in genesis 3

"Ideally, the ten clubs in the National League will be spread across the major population centres throughout the country."

seriously, is that all you have?

[pineapple stu]

Good God...

Clubs will be selected for the Premier on the basis of factors other than league position. That's a fact from an official FAI document (together with independent news and media) which I have already quoted. That's completely against the notion of fair and competitive sport. That screws over all the hard work being done at those clubs.

All this change is on the basis of the Genesis Report. The Genesis Report is seriously flawed - it has factual errors, it has plagiarised and unreliable figures, it hints that UEFA Licencing is a complete screw-up but doesn't attempt to investigate it, it omits several other areas of interest into how the league can improve and Genesis have refused to an open forum in Dublin to allow for discussion on the report as called for by themselves. All in all, the report can be counted as completely discredited, which is why any actions based on its conclusions have to be taken with extreme scepticism, especially when they are so potentially inherently unfair and subjective as all reports are. When you put subjective in with the FAI - whom you, as I, inherently distrust - you're looking at disaster.

Incidentally, I quoted articles from news reports which you have repeatedly refused to acknowledge as true or reliable. At what point do you believe things? Do you believe Bertie Ahern is the Taoiseach? You've presumably only read about this in the media.

I'm going to leave it at that, unless you have any actual points to make.

[Breifne]

"Ideally, the ten clubs in the National League will be spread across the major population centres throughout the country."

seriously, is that all you have?

Is that not enough, I think Stu has laid out his point of view excellently, and this isn't just the little guys sticking together against the big bad scary FAI. I have one question for Roverstillidie, Are you on the payroll of the FAI, because I find it hard to believe that someone can be that persistantly blind to this argument. Everyone (and that includes FAI officials) knows this is the plan, although it will not be officially said.

As it happens, I was in Limerick on saturday at a football tournament in UL, co incidentally the same venue, same day as a preseason session with the eL referees, considering that the AGM was happening less than a mile down the road from where we were, and the group of people in the same building as us (eL referees and FAI personnel) the main topic of conversation all day was about this, speaking to a number of FAI employees and council members, they all supported and fully backed up the indent behind this proposal.

Its not exactly rocket science. Its the start of "Franchise" football. Now where are all the fans who slagged us off about being a franchise, when 18 of our clubs have just decided that is exactly what they wish to become.

[Snoop Drog]

The bottom line for Louth is that if both clubs get their acts together- Drogs with a new stadium and Craptown sorted financially- both will be (rightfully) included in the league, regardless of geographical location.

What's the point in a Kilkenny, Kerry or Donegal "franchise" replacing one of the Louth teams merely for the sake of geographical spread?

Both Drogs & CT have huge potential for growth in a well run league.

Note that the Australian A-League, launched, last year (very successful so far- el should be watching and learning) limited each city to one team but a region could have multiple teams (ie, one team in Sydney but two others within a couple of hours drive).

Instead of pointing fingers at Louth maybe some Dub-based clubs should be worried about what place they have in a new league

[CollegeTillIDie]

If the FAI want to achieve their objective of having 50,000 people watching top class football in a top class arena wih top class facilities, then why not merge the big 4 Dublin Clubs and have St Shelhemians Rovers play in the English Premier League based int he new Lansdowne Road?

Meanwhile, the IFA could follow suit with Glenfieldville attracting huge crowds to their Coca Cola Championshiop games at George Best Park (aka the Maze).
And I'm sure Cork Ramblers and Derrystute would get good crowds at their League 1 and 2 games.

Well not so long ago Eamon Dunphy was the mouthpiece for an attempt to move Wimbledon to Dublin and play in the English Premiership. Which is the equivalent of St Shelmians Rovers because that would have killed off the old League of Ireland big time! This was the first attempt to introduce Franchising in Europe and was defeated by a combination of opposition from the IFA in Belfast, a small core of opposition in Merrion Square, and opposition from genuine fans of what we now call the EL. All the media here seemed to be behind the move ( notable exception being The Title). And even a widely circulated letter from FIFA saying they would not countenance it made no difference to the coverage. But Wimbledon did move.... to Milton Keynes which at least is in the same country.

The only reason the FAI are even interested in the League here is U.E.F.A. and F.I.F.A.'s position is clear... no National League... no International team. The only exception to this is Liechtenstein who have a dispensation to allow their leading clubs to play in lower League Swiss football. No international team no trips for blazers!

[Roverstillidie]

Is that not enough, I think Stu has laid out his point of view excellently, and this isn't just the little guys sticking together against the big bad scary FAI. I have one question for Roverstillidie, Are you on the payroll of the FAI, because I find it hard to believe that someone can be that persistantly blind to this argument. Everyone (and that includes FAI officials) knows this is the plan, although it will not be officially said.

As it happens, I was in Limerick on saturday at a football tournament in UL, co incidentally the same venue, same day as a preseason session with the eL referees, considering that the AGM was happening less than a mile down the road from where we were, and the group of people in the same building as us (eL referees and FAI personnel) the main topic of conversation all day was about this, speaking to a number of FAI employees and council members, they all supported and fully backed up the indent behind this proposal.

Its not exactly rocket science. Its the start of "Franchise" football. Now where are all the fans who slagged us off about being a franchise, when 18 of our clubs have just decided that is exactly what they wish to become.

payroll of the FAI
yeah, thats it.

the UCD fans have been talking about one louth club getting axed, UCD and CHF expelled and on and on. i want to know where they are getting all this. as i have repeatedy daid, they could well be right, but i want to see some of these theories backed up. and no, what some evening herald journo says isnt enough. they are very concertedly and aggressively putting forward their doom and gloom scenarios, and id like them to justify it.

bear in mind all these questions were posed on SATURDAY when they were as much in the dark as we were.

a good example is the word franchise. when and how did that enter the narrative of this discussion?

we cannot have a sensible discussion on the future of the league with some of this garbage floating around

[CollegeTillIDie]

Well you're signature about Mr. Delaney could be a subtle ploy to give the people what they want you know?