Eircom League votes on radical revamp

**monutdfc** · 26/01/2006, 10:19 AM

Won't get a vote on the new proposals, or the eL/FAI merger.
-ie teams who don't get a licence become non-voting members of the league

ps why do I have a logo beside my name now?
pps that should be a red hand of Ulster in the middle of the creast, not a flaming flame

**BohDiddley** · 26/01/2006, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

The other frightening thing is that we all know that using the eL section of the Genesis report as a point of reference is both frightening and laughable. We all know it contains the professionalism and quality level of a primary school project. That's not even an exaguration. The attendance figures from both the eL and other sports used as a comparison as sketchy and wrong.

This is the single most important point made in the discussion so far. Those wishing to portray themselves as forward-thinking realists -- the kind of reflex guff we hear so often these days -- are waving the Genesis Report in the air as if it alone held the key to salvation. One is reminded of the scene in Toy Story where those little green toys gaze heaven-ward chanting 'The Claw!'. 'The Claw!'.
The Genesis Report is worse than useless: it is misleading. By saying that EL football is effectively dead, it is directing the debate into very dangerous territory. We are now, it seems, in a place where careerists and corporatists who evidently know and care more about football played elsewhere simply want to be seen to be doing something ... anything, at whatever cost to the game at home. Even the rumour or suggestion that they may be contemplating relegating a club like Bohemian FC at the stroke of a pen begs the question: are they mad or bad?

**Sheridan** · 26/01/2006, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by monutdfc

What I've heard is that clubs who fail to get a licence will be allowed to play in the league, but won't get a vote. There's enough subjectivity in the licence criteria to ensure that it will only take the smallest bit of gerrymandering to ensure that the proposals get through

That sounds disquietingly plausible.

Thoroughly disillusioned by this whole episode (not for partisan reasons - I have an inkling that City will return to the First Division next season regardless, whether by FAIr means or foul) and I'm afraid that all the indignation we can muster will prove insufficient to stay the hand of bureaucracy.

Such initiatives as these carry an irresistible momentum of their own, and this proposal hasn't arisen autogenetically (that is to say, without at least tacit approval from prominent figures within the league.) As yesterday's kite-flying exercise in the national newspapers plainly evinced, the support of an ignorant media has already been secured (presumably with the magic words "to supply players for the national team.")

Even if the league were to be reconstituted along supposedly optimal lines, can you imagine a body to whom one would be less inclined to entrust that responsibility than the FAI?

One hates to play Cassandra, but I think this is the beginning of the end, fellas.

**Roverstillidie** · 26/01/2006, 11:27 AM

Jesus, sheridan writes exactly like Rico!!!

**Rory H** · 26/01/2006, 11:29 AM

someone ask rico who cassandra is

**BohDiddley** · 26/01/2006, 11:29 AM

Not so. Sheridan makes sense.

**sonofstan** · 26/01/2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by BohDiddley

This is the single most important point made in the discussion so far. Those wishing to portray themselves as forward-thinking realists -- the kind of reflex guff we hear so often these days -- are waving the Genesis Report in the air as if it alone held the key to salvation. One is reminded of the scene in Toy Story where those little green toys gaze heaven-ward chanting 'The Claw!'. 'The Claw!'.
The Genesis Report is worse than useless: it is misleading. By saying that EL football is effectively dead, it is directing the debate into very dangerous territory. We are now, it seems, in a place where careerists and corporatists who evidently know and care more about football played elsewhere simply want to be seen to be doing something ... anything, at whatever cost to the game at home. Even the rumour or suggestion that they may be contemplating relegating a club like Bohemian FC at the stroke of a pen begs the question: are they mad or bad?

in a nutshell, as usual. The question is can we - the league I mean, not bohs - save ourselves? To my mind the only possible exit strategy is an all ireland league, entirely independent of either the FAI or the IFA. This will take money and vision and a certain amount of pride swallowing; the alternative is the death of real football here and its replacement by a soulless franchise operation.

**OneRedArmy** · 26/01/2006, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Sheridan

That sounds disquietingly plausible.

Thoroughly disillusioned by this whole episode (not for partisan reasons - I have an inkling that City will return to the First Division next season regardless, whether by FAIr means or foul) and I'm afraid that all the indignation we can muster will prove insufficient to stay the hand of bureaucracy.

Such initiatives as these carry an irresistible momentum of their own, and this proposal hasn't arisen autogenetically (that is to say, without at least tacit approval from prominent figures within the league.) As yesterday's kite-flying exercise in the national newspapers plainly evinced, the support of an ignorant media has already been secured (presumably with the magic words "to supply players for the national team.")

Even if the league were to be reconstituted along supposedly optimal lines, can you imagine a body to whom one would be less inclined to entrust that responsibility than the FAI?

One hates to play Cassandra, but I think this is the beginning of the end, fellas.

......The beginning of the end of Dublin City I'm sure, although one would hope Mr Seery's money would be invested elsewhere in a more sustainable franchise, that is if he really is committed to domestic football rather than ego building.

I do agree with the point on trusting the FAI based on past performances.

Playing devil advocate, the frustrations of those with an agenda for change also have to be taken into account.

Every time organisational standards are improved, the clubs, yes, the clubs, have taken action to weaken or stall the implementation or otherwise bend the rules.

This short-termist self interest is because some clubs are maximising their performance potential based on where the League currently is and an increase in expenditure standards and the like, will, frankly, leave them behind and they have no desire to participate.

Domestic soccer is, by and large, absolutely stagnant, facilities are worse than poor and attendences are atrocious for what is the country's most popular sport. As Bohs fans would say FACT.

I'll say again, everyone nods their head and says they are totally in favour of change, but practice tells a different story.

Genesis isn't perfect, they are management consultants after all, but should be viewed as a glorified discussion document which will hopefully lead to RADICAL CHANGE.

These comments are of course my general view, I'd be as heartbroken as anyone else if my own club was forced out in the shake-up.

**pineapple stu** · 26/01/2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

This short-termist self interest is because some clubs are maximising their performance potential based on where the League currently is and an increase in expenditure standards and the like, will, frankly, leave them behind and they have no desire to participate.

The only short-termist self-interest is from clubs like Galway (who stand to get promoted for no reason other than where they're based) and Derry (who stand to never ever get relegated again). There is no short-termism on behalf of the opposing clubs as you seem intent on pointing out. Ironically though, for those clubs, there is only short-term. The First Division clubs, effecticely excluded from promotion under the arbitrary criteria, will go under in a matter of years from pure apathy. Brilliant for the game, I'm sure you'll agree.

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Genesis isn't perfect, they are management consultants after all, but should be viewed as a glorified discussion document which will hopefully lead to RADICAL CHANGE.

No, Genesis isn't perfect. In fact, its conclusions are based on lies, white lies and plagiarised guesstimates. It's a disgrace of a report and a disgrace that clubs could be put out of business because of the ineptitude of this shower. The eL has already had RADICAL CHANGE - it's gone to summer soccer, had massively improved prize funds, had the Setanta Cup, had extra media coverage, etc. It's shown progress - 27th best league in Europe this year - good enough, if we can do it for five years, to get a bye to QR2 of the Champions' League. Why not let this RADICAL CHANGE play itself out to its full conclusion instead of f*cking half the league's clubs over?

**gufct** · 26/01/2006, 2:43 PM

your assumption that Galway will simply get in because where we are situated thats bull***t.

No one is guarenteed a place in the league without meeting basic criteria as set down in the UEFA Licensing Manual which has been flaunted by the majority of clubs in the league while those who try to put the cart before the horse (ie. long term sustainability against short term glory) are slagged off. Its time everyone got real a major change is coming down the tracks and either Clubs get their asses in gear or they will go to the wall.

**Bald Student** · 26/01/2006, 2:52 PM

If what you're saying gufct turns out to be true then I'll apologise. I've read the UEFA License document and there's nothing in it which UCD should fail on. So if UCD are one of the clubs to make the premier then you'll have been correct.

I suspect, perhaps wrongly, that UCD will not be selected for the premier despite achieving the licensing criteria.

**pineapple stu** · 26/01/2006, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by gufct

No one is guarenteed a place in the league without meeting basic criteria as set down in the UEFA Licensing Manual which has been flaunted by the majority of clubs in the league while those who try to put the cart before the horse (ie. long term sustainability against short term glory) are slagged off. Its time everyone got real a major change is coming down the tracks and either Clubs get their asses in gear or they will go to the wall.

Your intention on spouting that change is needed and is coming, like it or not is making your posts sound like an FAI party political broadcast.

You say that clubs can get their asses in gear or go to the wall?

Hey, guess what - clubs like UCD and Bray Wanderers have gotten their asses in gear (witness us being in the Premier and the likes of Rovers and Galway not being) and are still likely to go to the wall because the FAI is going to arbitrarily relegate us because we're in the wrong area. This from an association whose motto is "We care about Irish football"? They care that much that they are going to send half the clubs in the league to the wall?!

It's time the proponents and supporters of this plan "got real" and took a look at where it'd lead the league. There's been enough of intelligent posts here forecasting doom for most involved, and yet we're the ones told to "get real" because of a vague assertion that "change" is needed, based on a fraudulent document?!

**Dodge** · 26/01/2006, 2:52 PM

And its nothing to do with the el chairman being from Galway either.

Why should you get a place ahead of Bray or Sligo?

**BohDiddley** · 26/01/2006, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by gufct

Its time everyone got real a major change is coming down the tracks and either Clubs get their asses in gear or they will go to the wall.

Who's not getting real?
Why do we need a major change? Because the hare-brainded Genesis Report says so? We have already seen that discredited.
Radical change may sound sexier at John Delaney's press conferences, but that doesn't mean that revolution actually is better than evolution.
The EL has recently made radical changes, as already outlined. More gradually, professional football is taking root. Crowds are modestly up over recent years. We are finally getting some TV. Disillusionment with Skyjacked corporate English premiership football is growing. Clubs are in financial crisis, but there is a growing acceptance that football needs an injection of public capital.
Flipchart heroes at the FAI are looking at an up-curve on the graph and are planning to wipe it out.

**Poor Student** · 26/01/2006, 3:05 PM

If these changes do come to the fore would a boycott of games be advisable or would we just damage our clubs?

**Roverstillidie** · 26/01/2006, 3:07 PM

Lads, the reality is that the FAI are perfictly entitled to insist on all clubs having fully implemented licences to join the new super league they will launch. That isnt really a problem, only fans of clubs who know they will fail on tax, debt or stadia issues are going to kick up a stink. Get it sorted, you have a year.

The problems begin when you get into the sub-plots. The FAI are going to use (or so they are leaking) some subjective terms like 'potential support' to relegate/promote teams. this is not franchising. thats not on. once a team is accpeted into the league, on the pitch is the only valid benchmark.

the fai are also using the opportunity to push through grounsharing in dublin.

in short, nice idea being implemented totally wrong. typical fai

**Dodge** · 26/01/2006, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

If these changes do come to the fore would a boycott of games be advisable or would we just damage our clubs?

Rather damage them than have them killed

**Poor Student** · 26/01/2006, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Rather damage them than have them killed

I'm just thinking at the end of the day it's up to us, the fans, to lobby against such moves and show our displeasure and give it negative publicity. Does anyone have some constructive ideas on protesting? I suppose the NLSA should get on it.

**Dodge** · 26/01/2006, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

That isnt really a problem, only fans of clubs who know they will fail on tax, debt or stadia issues are going to kick up a stink. Get it sorted, you have a year.

Pats easily qualify under uefa licensing but I'm gonna kick up stink. As all true fans should, this is ridiculous