Eircom League votes on radical revamp

**R�iteoir** · 25/01/2006, 3:18 PM

You want it straight down the line - let the places be decided by what happens on the pitch - not in the office.

Dublin City deserve to be where they are now - due to obtaining promotion through the correct channels.

Shamrock should not be in the League full stop due to reasons already discussed 50,000 times elsewhere - like it or not - if we were overseen by anyone else other than the Board of Control or the FAI - yourselves would have been demoted right out of the League - as was the case with Servette Geneva and Fiorentina.

Franchising - not the way to go - see the MK Dons saga for an example

By all means let's come up with a VIABLE altenative (if there is one) - not one that results in artificially created divisions.

My solution (probably unworkable but feck it here it is): Two divisions of 12 teams, the shortfall in figures in the First Division will be solved by bringing in two clubs with a proven track record from the Intermediate setup who submit plans showing they can viably (sp?) support 1st Division Football and above.

Two up - two down between the Prem and First - plus a third place to be decided by a play off (as we have now with the current setup).

The bottom team in the First Division will face a play-off against the winners of a round-robin play-off featuring intermediate teams eager to climb the footballing ladder.

(PS: I don't have an inferiority complex - I feel quite superior to your ilk

)

**Breifne** · 25/01/2006, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by thomas

If its a 10 team league they are proposing there is very little point in ranking teams positioned 1st and 2nd in the first division a nominal overall rank of 11 and 12

There is when Dublin City, Bray and UCD aren't in those positions (last and second last) They will be relegated on these issues, and Rovers, Dundalk, and Galway will be promoted (regardless of where they finish)

**Dodge** · 25/01/2006, 3:31 PM

Wouldn't be so sure that it'd those 3 teams, particularly Dundalk. If there's a louth "franchise" Drogs are probably ahead of them.

**gufct** · 25/01/2006, 3:41 PM

These changes have been flagged for almost a year now. Clubs have to be proactive and get their houses in order and have a proper workable 10 year plan. We had Genesis down at an open forum at the end of last season and everyone in Galway United are working their butts off to have everything in place on and off the field for 2007.

I felt that rather than have 2 divisions this season why not have one for 2 seasons then aggregate the points from the 2 seasons and then select the teams that reach the criteria. This would give everyone a fair chance and if clubs cant get sorted in 2 years they dont deserve to be in the league.

The idea of a ten team super league is crazy either a 14 or 16 team league playing each other twice is the way to go and surely all forward looking clubs would think this is the way to go.

There has to be change lads or the league will simply collapse with at least half the teams going to the wall.

**thomas** · 25/01/2006, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by R�iteoir

You want it straight down the line - let the places be decided by what happens on the pitch - not in the office.

Dublin City deserve to be where they are now - due to obtaining promotion through the correct channels

By being insolvent? I wouldn't call that correct, or in compliance with license rules. Will you continue to advocate this if DC have a points sanction at the start of the season?

**Roverstillidie** · 25/01/2006, 3:43 PM

agreed, but does this whole excercise not stink of ulterior motive?

**NY Hoop** · 25/01/2006, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by R�iteoir

You want it straight down the line - let the places be decided by what happens on the pitch - not in the office.

Dublin City deserve to be where they are now - due to obtaining promotion through the correct channels.

Shamrock should not be in the League full stop due to reasons already discussed 50,000 times elsewhere - like it or not - if we were overseen by anyone else other than the Board of Control or the FAI - yourselves would have been demoted right out of the League - as was the case with Servette Geneva and Fiorentina.

Franchising - not the way to go - see the MK Dons saga for an example

By all means let's come up with a VIABLE altenative (if there is one) - not one that results in artificially created divisions.

My solution (probably unworkable but feck it here it is): Two divisions of 12 teams, the shortfall in figures in the First Division will be solved by bringing in two clubs with a proven track record from the Intermediate setup who submit plans showing they can viably (sp?) support 1st Division Football and above.

Two up - two down between the Prem and First - plus a third place to be decided by a play off (as we have now with the current setup).

The bottom team in the First Division will face a play-off against the winners of a round-robin play-off featuring intermediate teams eager to climb the footballing ladder.

(PS: I don't have an inferiority complex - I feel quite superior to your ilk

)

I agree with your first 2 paragraphs. FYI the name is Shamrock Rovers. We were never gonna be thrown out of the league because it would have meant a lop sided league and certain clubs would complain about lost revenue. They are the facts in the matter. Comparing with other leagues is a waste of time.

Your solution is unworkable because there is barely enough support as is let alone bringing in 2 more teams. That ok SON?

KOH

**R�iteoir** · 25/01/2006, 3:47 PM

Your solution is unworkable because there is barely enough support as is let alone bringing in 2 more teams.

So therefore - as I see it - any notion of franchising to new parts of the country would be unworkable as well.

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

That ok SON?

Fine with me LASS

**R�iteoir** · 25/01/2006, 3:52 PM

actually - plan b would be to pack the League up lock, stock and barrel and form another division of the Manchester and District League - sure that's where all the spectators go from this place each week

**Mr A** · 25/01/2006, 3:56 PM

These changes have been flagged for
almost a year now

What changes? We don't know what exactly entry to the premier will be based on! I totally agree that the league needs a step like this, but it has to be done right- just forcing through an undefined mess is likely to result in chaos. I'm not against this proposal because I'm against what it intends to do, I'm against it because it may not be able to achieve what its meant to because its not watertight. If the ongoing licensing fiascos have taught us anything it's that the rules have to be watertight or they become a joke.

**Dodge** · 25/01/2006, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by gufct

The idea of a ten team super league is crazy either a 14 or 16 team league playing each other twice is the way to go and surely all forward looking clubs would think this is the way to go

I ****ing hate this attitude of "We think this, we're forward thinking, surely everyone who's forward thinking has to think this" and btw gufct you're the worst in the world for this.

LOADS of clubs are forward thinking, some are way different from Galway but as of last year Galway were getting **** crowds in the first division with a below premier division average stadium, so you're in no way able to preach to the rest how it should be done. I'm not trying to knock the work you're doing but relax on the holier than thou attitude

Oh and any new system that doesn't involve prmotion and relegation is atotla disaster. Any league with 11 teams playing for nothing would become a joke

**NY Hoop** · 25/01/2006, 4:03 PM

Originally Posted by R�iteoir

So therefore - as I see it - any notion of franchising to new parts of the country would be unworkable as well.

Completely. Most of these junior clubs have great facilities already and would they really want to enter a league like this?

Only way is if a club really wanted in would be to have it replace CHF BUT they would have to be from a county that is not served already with a league side e.g. Kerry or Mayo. And they would have to have all tick all the boxes in terms of support, facilities, business plans etc.

"malcontent paranoid filth"

KOH

**Passive** · 25/01/2006, 4:21 PM

Reitor: your argument doesn't stand up because you say Dublin City should be congratulated for spending beyond their means and going into massive debt, while Rovers should have been thrown out of the league for spending beyond their means and going into massive debt.

Granted, Rovers faked the licence application (something which all Rovers fans condemned - incidentally, I've never seen DC's licence application so I don't know if their debts are listed) but the methods are much the same.

**gufct** · 25/01/2006, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I ****ing hate this attitude of "We think this, we're forward thinking, surely everyone who's forward thinking has to think this" and btw gufct you're the worst in the world for this.

LOADS of clubs are forward thinking, some are way different from Galway but as of last year Galway were getting **** crowds in the first division with a below premier division average stadium, so you're in no way able to preach to the rest how it should be done. I'm not trying to knock the work you're doing but relax on the holier than thou attitude

Oh and any new system that doesn't involve prmotion and relegation is atotla disaster. Any league with 11 teams playing for nothing would become a joke

Well we will have 18 playing for nothing next season so what is that.

As for Galway having a below premier division average stadium i can think of lot of premier ground who arent a patch on terryland although we still have to develop one side which is in hand and should be started by mid march.As for s**** crowds we averaged about 650 which for the 1st division is a minor miracle and judging by my last visit to Inchicore this year the ground is severly run down and in need of urgent work as for crowds Pats have not exactly been packed out last season.

**Dodge** · 25/01/2006, 4:28 PM

Yeah we're in bits. We're not trying to preach how its done either...

And you consider playing for promotion noting?

**Bald Student** · 25/01/2006, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by gufct

almost a year now.Clubs have to be proactive and get their houses in order and have a proper workable 10 year plan.We had Genesis down at an open forum at the end of last season and everyone in Galway United are working their butts off to have everything in place on and off the field for 2007.

That's all because Galway have been selected as a team to get an automatic promotion. Why did genesis visit you and no other club? The clubs chalked down for a automatic relegation could work as hard as they liked and would still be relegated.

**Mr A** · 25/01/2006, 4:37 PM

This is from today's Irish Times:

Officials move to reassure clubs over league plan
Emmet Malone, Soccer Correspondent

National League: Eircom League officials yesterday moved to reassure clubs that proposals to "wind up" the league in its current form at the end of this year and establish a new FAI-run entity in time for the 2007 season poses no threat to their participation in the National League.

Representatives of the National League's 22 clubs will be asked to endorse a one-page document outlining the proposal at a management committee before Saturday morning's league agm in Limerick.

If there is sufficient support for the document it will be brought before a rule-changing egm, probably next month, where a two thirds majority (15 of the 22 clubs) would be required to adopt the scheme.

However, representatives of several clubs have expressed considerable concern over what they regard as the vagueness of what is described by its Merrion Square authors as a "declaration of intent".

By adopting the document clubs commit themselves to take the various legal and other steps required to wrap up the league in its present form and hand the necessary authority to the FAI to establish a new league which clubs would then have to apply to for membership.

Although the move was broadly expected to come at some point in the aftermath of clubs endorsing proposals for radical reform of the league by the consultancy firm Genesis, the lack of detail contained in the single-page document has alarmed some and prompted a majority of those contacted yesterday to call for the provision of much more information.

"I agree in principle that the league needs to be changed," said Dublin City chief executive Ronan Seery yesterday, "but until I see what the criteria are for joining the new league I would find it hard to vote the present one out of existence."

UCD director Dick Shakespeare, meanwhile, questioned the wisdom of pressing ahead with the reforms so quickly when, he said, a more considered approach should be taken.

"In the circumstances it would seem reasonable to take more time to weigh up the best way ahead and maybe tie the changes to the introduction of the new Uefa manual which is due to come into effect here in 2008."

Other clubs, however, expressed an inclination to place their trust in the FAI's leadership despite concerns over the proposal that promotion and relegation be suspended for the coming season.

"We'd be opposed to that," said Nial O'Reilly of Galway United, "but we realise that the league has to change and we might be prepared to buy into the whole thing once we saw the detail."

Acting director of the League, John Byrne, said last night that he could understand the concerns expressed but, he said: "It's not a case of the FAI or anybody else wanting 10, 12 or 16 clubs. We want all 22 clubs and we have made that clear but we also want a better league and the clubs unanimously endorsed the report that prompted this move."

He also said that it is envisaged that the suspension of promotion and relegation would only last one season.

It was suggested last week that the country's leading clubs might stage a breakaway if the proposals are shot down but a representative of a club in such talks last year said that such a move has not been discussed of late.

**pete** · 25/01/2006, 4:50 PM

What do people think are reasonable criteria for admission to the league & thre Premier division. I know minimum number of seats was specified before but completely ignored. Was licencing supposed to address this or we going to see stricter enforcement of the licencing?

I agree position should be decided on the pitch but also need minimum criteria for promotion to the Premier. I think its unfair to exclude based on support as say Longford with small catchment population can still match support from the pale.

**Dodge** · 25/01/2006, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by pete

What do people think are reasonable criteria for admission to the league & thre Premier division. I know minimum number of seats was specified before but completely ignored. Was licencing supposed to address this or we going to see stricter enforcement of the licencing?

I agree position should be decided on the pitch but also need minimum criteria for promotion to the Premier.

I don't think anyone can argue with you Pete. Minimum criteria in terms of stadium, finances, youth developmet etc. are a must. BUT these are in place already and they're being overlooked...

**Mr A** · 25/01/2006, 5:10 PM

I think the requirement that clubs run themselves in a financially viable manner is the big one. Clubs should be subjected to very close scrutiny in terms of how they pay players and taxes and so on.

Ground should meet minimum health and safety to start with with gradual increases in minimum requirement in all aspects of facilities every year. There's no point trying to do it in one big leap, unless the clubs are given help to do so. Also, there seems little point to me of asking Monaghan to have 2000 seats or whatever if they are unlikely to need them. If they can get into the premier based on small attendances then fair play to them, as long as the crowds they do have are properly accomodated. Perhaps it would be better to base requirements on a clubs attendances over a number of years. There should also be dispensations (but not on health and safety) for clubs that are building (and can prove it) new grounds.

Youth development, with qualified coaches etc should also be a must. I'd also like to see initiatives to see clubs try to integrate into their communities.