Granny rule is mother of dependency? Locker Room from the Times today

**Shelsman** · 24/01/2006, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Hither green

That said I don't like Staunton pimping the green shirt round the english leagues like some cheap wh0re.

It is disappointing allright. I think the main reason Stan came out with this is because he wanted to make an impression at his first press conference because his appointment had received so much criticism. He was effectively answering the question:

Well, what are you going to bring to the job Stan? What are you going to do different?

It's a sticky issue, but if Russia and Poland can field (naturalised) Nigerians and Portugal, Tunisia and a load of other countries field (naturalised) Brazilians, none of which have any blood ties to the country, then playing someone with an Irish Grandparent doesn't seem so bad in comparison, though not ideal.

**Plastic Paddy** · 26/01/2006, 6:42 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

David Johnson I think. He was referred to elsewhere on this board v. recently. must have been on another thread.

It was me who mentioned Johnson, earlier on in this thread. Good God, don't you lot ever read threads in full first? Honestly...

PP

**elroy** · 26/01/2006, 10:59 AM

I dont see a huge problem with it. Look at mighty France and how they have taken players from the likes of Senegal etc.
I must admit I'm not keen on the turncoats, Morrison being one, who have turned us down only to change their minds when other doors arent opening. Having said that I would not doubt the lads commitment to the Irish cause.

The likes of Nolan who couldve but has chosen not to declare for Ireland, I dont understand why we continue to mention him/persue him, I respect him for not just choosing Ireland because it wouldve meant he played international football. Overall I am in favour of bringing in players that have not being Irish born, we are a very small nation after all, its where those players commitment to the Irish cause is in doubt is when I have severe reservations.

**Dodge** · 26/01/2006, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by elroy

I dont see a huge problem with it. Look at mighty France and how they have taken players from the likes of Senegal etc.

All of whom were brought up in France and lived the majority of their lives there

**lopez** · 26/01/2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

All of whom were brought up in France and lived the majority of their lives there

France, Britain etc have an advantage because of they're traditionally countries of immigration. Ireland isn't. Unlike any other country in Europe it's population has halved since 1840 when it was 9 million. England's population at the time was around 11 million. It's now 50 million.

Anyway a stalemate has occured between the Ius Soli and Ius Sanguinnis supporters of citizenship. My final argument is that the Granny rule is a retrospective payment to the people who left Ireland so that they wouldn't be a burden on the people left behind. God willing in years it will be history.

**Duncan Gardner** · 26/01/2006, 12:04 PM

Morning all. Haven't been on here for a while, but looking forward to meeting some of ye at the London quiz tomorow.

Maik Taylor has no other NI connections than the team. I think his Dad is English, his Mum German.

Jeff Whitley's Dad is from NI, his Mum Zambia. He's really Welsh having lived much of his life in Landudno...

I would prefer players in the NI team to have grown up there (even if not born thus, which seems unnecessarily restrictive), but if they qualify through parentage, citizenship etc. as per the rules then fair enough. The rule allowing Taylor to play for Scotland, Wales or NI is daft and should be dropped. I'll admit to a certain hypocrisy here, as he's arguably our best player of the last decade...

**Den Perry** · 26/01/2006, 4:00 PM

Originally Posted by totalfootball

I don't agree with Humphries that there needs to a kind of loyalty test or that you need one of your parents to be born in the country in order to be able to represent Ireland. The only 'test' , in my opinion, should be citizenship.

However, I am 100% against attempting to convince foreign citizens who happen to have a grandparent born in Ireland to acquire Irish citizenship so that they can play for Ireland. If I were the manager and a player that I thought was good enough was 2G or 3G, my only question to them would be 'do you have an Irish passport?'. If they said no, then I would make no attempt to convince them to acquire one and I would not consider them again unless they subsequently contacted me to say that they had an Irish passport. Once, however, a player has acquired citizenship, then a manager has no choice and must select on footballing merit only, even if like Morrisson or Holland they have virtually no connection with Ireland at all. To do otherwise would be a form of discrimination and since football is a profession, the manager could even end up in court if it was clear he was selecting on grounds other than ability to do the job.

So if I were the manager, I would consider the likes of Holland because he has now acquired an Irish passport, although I wish he hadn't and I don't consider him to actually be Irish in any meaningful way other than technically since he had never even set foot in the country before he began to 'represent' us, whereas I do consider people like Breen or Kilbane to be Irish.

I find it depressing that Staunton is now going around to see if he can convince other British players to take the place of Irish players in the team.

can somebody confirm, did Holland once sing God save the queen at Wembley, after delaring for Ireland? I'm not being anti-british here, just want a rumour confirmed?

**Den Perry** · 26/01/2006, 4:06 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Yeah I said this before I think its a very complex issue and I don't agree with Humphries that we should have a hard and fast rule on this. I agree with Kerr's view on it which is if the player fits into the 2 criteria that he set out which is they are good enough and have the passion to play for Ireland then they are considered. Thats good enough for me to be honest. And at the same time making sure the structures are in place to produce home grown talent.

The greatest f******* mercenary of all is Ray Houghton, he is always on about being Scottish. In fact good old "Shoot" magazine quoted him yeas ago as saying that he always wanted to play for Scotland, just the way things turn out.....I wish he would now keep his nose out of our businrss

**NeilMcD** · 26/01/2006, 4:14 PM

I dont see what my quote has got to do with your post attacking Ray Houghton.

**Den Perry** · 26/01/2006, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I dont see what my quote has got to do with your post attacking Ray Houghton.

Eh??? you stated two criteria desired for a player wishing to play for Ireland. I I used this as a platform for my "attack" on houghton

**NeilMcD** · 26/01/2006, 4:33 PM

That is Brian Kerr's criteria which i agree with and to be honest Hought would fall into that criteria when he was asked to play. yes he was good enough and he did have the passion to play for us. So if he was around when Brian Kerr was manager, Kerr would have picked him I am sure.

**Plastic Paddy** · 26/01/2006, 6:40 PM

I don't want him to play for Ireland as it's clearly a second-best option for him. I could never be sure of his commitment after making a statement like that.

PP

**geysir** · 26/01/2006, 8:04 PM

“If Stan [Staunton] got in touch with me I would be honoured to go and play for Ireland because that’s where my Dad’s from and three of my grandparents as well.

No need for him to say anymore, he should have shut up while he was ahead

opportunity to play international football

It's embarrassing.

**Dodge** · 26/01/2006, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by totalfootball

fact I am as Irish as probably half of the current [Ireland] squad

Good researcher too

Lopez, would you accept him?

**lopez** · 27/01/2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Lopez, would you accept him?

I'd guess you'd reckon Edward Carson, General Kitchener, General Wilson, Francis Bacon (he of the wonderful portrait of Thatch), Lord Lucan, Lord Lindley, Jonathan Aitken, Kieran Bracken were more Irish?

It's not a case of whether I'd accept him, it's whether the Irish government accept him. If he fits the criteria for instant Irish citizenship so be it. Personally I think he's a tool, and let's face it a pretty thick tool at that. The fact that he's played for England should also disbar him. I'd be happy if the FAI at least took that route: Play for someone else and your cup-tied. I've said the same about Townsend on previous forums - with the risk of being aksed who am I to question someone's Irishness when I was born abroad too. His pride about a bike ride across Ibiza and his armbands for the Bike of Kensington means he's not Irish in my eyes. I doubt he thinks he's Irish (although some footballers have a strange way of judging their own nationality) but he's an Irish citizen. Once you live in a country with huge immigration like myself, you'll find that carrying a passport of a country doesn't always equate with identity or loyalty to it.

**Dodge** · 27/01/2006, 12:02 PM

So to answer my question, its no. Agree with your post too

**lopez** · 27/01/2006, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

So to answer my question, its no. Agree with your post too

It's not quite as simple as 'no' but let's say, I hope his form drops.

**Dodge** · 27/01/2006, 1:52 PM

C'mon admit it, he's a mercenary and you hope he breaks his legs...

**Gandhi** · 27/01/2006, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Was Humphries close to Kerr or was he just a Kerr supporter?

I also think Kerr's way was best. If a player is eligible and needs no time to declare for us then he can play for us. Stan is just looking for those that are eligible which is wrong.

I think to be fair to Stan he is looking for people who are good enough, irrespective of whether you were born here or born there. I don't agree that he is just looking for eligibility

Getting back to Tom Humphries article itself, I'm never really sure what to make of his comments on football. He's a GAA fan with a typewriter, basically - a fairly articulate one, mind, but it's very obvious that GAA is his thing. Every now and then (maybe once or twice in every 100 Locker Room columns) he writes something about association football, and I find it very hard to take him seriously, knowing that he is not particularly interested in it. His comments on the current situation reflect his lack of knowledge and lack of interest in soccer. god knows if Brian Kerr had someone more like Tony Cascarino and less like Gary Doherty available to him when we were at home to Israel, for example, we could now all be planning our summer holidays around a trip to Germany. Stan just wants to be able to have a look at what's available, that's all! And if some people see that as some sort of betrayal, I dunno - we all seemed happy enough when Ray Houghton was scoring goals for us in major finals!

**pete** · 27/01/2006, 3:59 PM

FFS are we so bad that average Football league players such as Gary McSheffrey are candidates for international football? Who would get dropped to accomodate him?

Far from impressed with Staunton on Setanta last night. Sounded like he barely spoken to Robson since appointment & doesn't have a clue what to do with Robson yet.