doesnt matter...
basically...
what are the figures for eircom park v lansdowne road?(abbotstown?????)
timescales?(we would have a stadium by now with eircom park)
and what is so different in the way the FAI plan to fund their portion of lansdowne as opposed to the way they planned to fund eircom park??
GAA took a massive gamble on Croker and it paid off. FAI bottled Eircom Park and now they are goin cap in hand to GAA and claiming it somehow as afeather in their cap.
Well I am not expert on this and I agreed with Eircom Park at the time and I think its a big pity that it was never built. However I am glad in one way that it was not built as I believe in City Centre stadia rather than out of town grounds as there is a chance they can become white Elephants. I think Dublin with 2 Stadiums, one Croke Park and the other LR will be adequate to deal with the sporting fixtures that are held regularly in the capital.
In Trap we trust
Jim Mansfields no idiot and he is building a massive conferance centre out in City west. Luas goes out there as well. Tallaght no more out of town than ballsbridge if you have access to M50
Its just a personal thing I prefer City centre Stadiums. LR is walking distance the the city centre and I think going by foot is one of the best ways to go to a game. Its the same with the stadiums around the world that I have been to.Its great that Croke Park and LR are so close to the centre it really gives game day a better buzz. Just my view and a personal preference.
In Trap we trust
Bottled it = feasability study which showed it was way beyond the means of the Association and would have bankrupt it. Then you would have been on here complaining that the FAI are financially incompetent and at the same time moaning about the price of tickets. Remember the GAA can hold numerous games in Croke Park to finance the stadium. The FAI can put on 4 maybe 5 games at most in their own stadium. It is not a just comparision but I know I am wasting my breath.Originally Posted by klein4
doesnt matter...
basically...
what are the figures for eircom park v lansdowne road?(abbotstown?????)
timescales?(we would have a stadium by now with eircom park)
and what is so different in the way the FAI plan to fund their portion of lansdowne as opposed to the way they planned to fund eircom park??
GAA took a massive gamble on Croker and it paid off. FAI bottled Eircom Park and now they are goin cap in hand to GAA and claiming it somehow as afeather in their cap.
The redevelopment of a ground is obviously not as expensive as a green field site. Furthermore, the Government is putting funds to assist in the redevelopment. If you recall Bertie also put the pressure on the FAI to drop Eircom Park because he was going to build the Bertie Bowl, which the Government decided it couldn't subsequently afford.
that wasnt the case at all so dont be peddling half truths as fact.
I think it's fairly clear from the context it was originally posted that TheJamaincanPM (correctly or not) meant "motivated through self-interest". Yes, technically it can mean "motivated by onesself", but to argue over that point is to argue over technical English rather than the point at hand.
You confuse me here. You quote his theory and then go off on a complete tangent describing the set-up of the FAI while making no attempt to tie this in to his theory...? The rest of your post reads like a party political broadcast on behalf of the FAI. Do you work there? (Seriously?) The technical development plan is indeed nice (for the record, I got a copy about a year and a half ago), but so is UEFA Licencing. And we all know what's happened to that.
Back to the issue at hand, so, which is whether or not the FAI are incompetent. There are several things which point to this being so.
(Mods - I'm aware that's not what the thread at large is about; feel free to split. Feel free to delete too if we're getting into legally questionable grounds. Though do so of your own free will without being leaned on!!!).
1) UEFA Licencing. This is, the FAI would have us believe, one of the few issues of the league they control. Yet this has been an almighty screw-up for the two years of its existence. The FAI failed clubs for submitting part of an application in red ink and yet failed to notice that Shamrock Rovers' 2004 accounts were merely their 2003 accounts with the years tipp-exed out. This is quite an achievement and makes you wonder about what else "slipped" past. They then brought further bad PR on the league by failing every single club when a two-week period of notification as to what was needed to be cleared up would have been much more sensible. If the stories are to be believed, this was the plan but one of their committee didn't bother getting around to it.
2) Refereeing. As well as UEFA Licencing, the FAI control the refereeing department. This, quite spectacularly, failed to appoint a referee to UCD-Waterford last season. I've never ever heard of a similar incident outside of some of your darker, deeper African leagues, so it isn't something which can be dismissed as "one of those things". They ducked this issue when the eL apologised, despite the fact that they had nothing to do with it.
3) General incompetence in board members. Consider the likes of Louis Kilcoyne, who turned Shamrock Rovers from four-in-a-row league winners (and three-in-a-row double winners) to the wreck you currently see by selling off Milltown for personal gains. Yet he gets rewarded with a place on the FAI's executive committee. Such an appointment is fundamentally antithecal to the FAI's motto "We care about Irish football". You could argue that the motto wasn't around then, but that's to argue that the FAI only started caring about Irish football when it made up the motto. Regardless, the FAI subsequently appointed John Delaney as CEO in 2003. He was one of the people primarily responsible for blowing Waterford United's windfall from floatation and nearly bankrupting them. Such a person should be actively precluded from such a high position in the FAI by virtue of this evidence of incompetence or startling lack of caring about Irish football.
4) Credit card scandals and World Cup tickets. Happened in 1990 - investigation. All better. Nope - happened in 1994 again, and was in the news as recently as 2001. Moral of the story - the FAI is not learning from its past errors. The likes of Roy Keane's experiences and Jack Charlton's stories about sub-standard training pitches and accommodation and players flying economy while officials fly first class show where the FAI's prioities lie - they'll even screw over the senior team to benefit themselves. This has been going on for years - when Ireland got into a play-off for the 1966 World Cup, the FAI agreed to switch the play-off to Paris instead of London for money purposes. The Spanish were happy with this as they knew London would see a sizeable Irish support. Ireland lost. Nothing has happened in recent times to suggest that anything has changed.
5) The Genesis Report. The GR into the eircom League was a disgrace. It containts factual inaccuracies, plagiarised and unsubstantiated figures, overlooks crucial problems in the league (such as the joke that it UEFA Licencing) among other weaknesses. The FAI then proceed to take out the more sensible parts of it (such as a second consultation or promotion/relegation between divisions) and propose this as a new league format. Supporters' views, for some bizarre reason, were almost completely ignored. A cynic would say that the FAI told Genesis exactly what to write in their report. It also doesn't say much for the first Genesis Report, which is now held up as proof that all is well in Merrion Square.
6) The new Ireland manager appointment. Delaney's reason for not conducting an interview with John Aldridge as arranged was that he was doing paperwork and didn't have the time. I rest my case on that.
7) Testimonies from other people who have worked with the FAI. For obvious reasons, I can't name names here (I know, I know - it's unfortunate, but you can either take my word or leave it), but many people I know who have worked with the FAI have very very little good to say about them. The common consensus is that they never offer the courtesy of a reply to any correspondence - letters, e-mails, phone calls (I can testify to this myself in recent weeks), making it impossible for any outside ideas to infiltrate and grow in HQ. I know of people who've worked for the league, who have been stabbed in the back and who have subsequently been reluctant to return to committee level at their eL club (which they have to leave when they take up any FAI or eL office) for fear that their club would be prejudiced against.
8) The FAI website. WTF is that about?! Volunteers maintain eL club websites to a far higher standard than the FAI do their own site. Yet they have plenty of time for consulting internet forums - they've been shown to be stirring on here a few times, I think, and it was through ere they got wind of the red-card protest and subsequently ordered their stewards to confiscate any red cards (WTF?!) off people going into Lansdowne before the Croatia game before turning up the tannoy at the exact moment they knew the boos would be coming.
9) The incident whereby the Cork chairman, weeks after publicly criticising the Ireland U-21 manager, announced that any protests at the same manager during an Ireland U-21 game in France would lead to season-long bans was a disgrace. Nobody does that quick an about-turn without being leaned on, and it is quite clear this happened here.
There are others, I'm sure. However, for the moment, there are some quite clear incidents that the FAI is either corrupt/incompetent/self-serving.
OwlsFan,
I'm not arguing that the FAI should have an identicle committee structure to the GAA. I'm arguing that whatever the structure, the basic principles of democracy and transparancy should be maintained.
On the particular issue of the President, I wouldn't have any particular objection if the position was rotated around all areas of football. I would prefer if people were appointed according to their ability, independant of their affilliation, but are we agreed that the current system of the position rotating between the two biggest voting blocks is a bad one?
Don't worry about us, PS. More power to your elbow and all that.
I second that emotion...
PP
Semper in faecibus sole profundum variat
Put massive pressure on the FAI, and said that there would be no funding at all for eP, never mind comparable to what Croke Park continues to receive. This should never be forgotten by those so quick to criticise Irish football for not having a home of it's own.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
How about the one that club programmes and club websites must have no criticism of the FAI or Delaney. Failure to comply €2000 fine, lost appeal €4000.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
"Yet they have plenty of time for consulting internet forums - they've been shown to be stirring on here a few times, "
Good posts seems like its well researched.
So who are the posters from the FAI then. Just curious.
In Trap we trust
I do not work at the FAI but it just irritates when I see people (a) attacking the FAI because Irish soccer does not have a stadium of its own when anyone who knows anything about Irish soccer would be aware that the funds were never there, (b) make invidious comparisons with the GAA which for historical reasons is embedded in every town and community in Ireland when soccer was banned by those people, wasn't played in schools and was primarily just played in the so-called garrison towns by the working class, (c) blame the FAI for all the ills of soccer in this country as if it is made up of people who don't care about soccer without making any suggestion who should work there instead, bearing in mind that it is nearly all soccer people from all walks of the soccer community who work there.
I have to agree with you on Louis Kilcoyne as a Rovers fan. How soccer people could elect someone connected to the sale of Rovers is beyond me.
I am well aware that the FAI has cocked things up in the past, as have most organisations in various walks of life. The point is you list a number of instances over a 40 year period to show the FAI is incompetent etc etc. However, the soccer people who have worked there over that period are different people, yet the errors continue. Is it something in the blood of soccer people that makes them screw up ? However, is the organisation not more professional now compared to the bitty organisation there used to be there 30 years ago. Has there been any progress ? What's the solution. Throw out the soccer people and bring in administrators with no interest in the game as such ?
If there are different people but the same problems then there is something more fundamental in the problems of Irish soccer in this country.
This one would be top of my list of all time FAI kokups
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=11929
and surprise, your old mate Dunphy is in the thick of it.
Like I say, I honestly can't remember what the story was. I think dahamsta was looking into a few posters at some stage though. However, the likes of the Croatia protest and the Don Givens protest were most definitely read about here, which is why precautions were planned in advance. I also know from personal experience (which I don't feel this forum is the right place to detail) that the FAI spend plenty of time reading forums like this. In fact, they're probably doing so now. Hello John! Hello Pat! Hello Mr Blood! Hello everyone else in there! Might be time to do a bit of work now, do you think? Seeing as you're on the internet, you might like to go to www.FAI.ie and work out what could be updated? As a start, like? Though more likely this post will go to my personal file...
A large part of the problem, as I see it (take that how you want) is that there is no accountability on the FAI's part as to who they appoint to what positions. Therefore the FAI are able to surround themselves with people just like them - who care sod all about Irish football apart from the fact that the money they make out of it will help pay for their Man Utd season ticket - which means it's very hard for the association to break out of its inept status.
Look at the CEO application, for example. An allegedly transparent process which, we were told, had 40/50 applicants (I think?) and yet the job went to the person who had a prior history of nearly sending an eL club down the drain, who had a very bad working relationship with some of the people in the league (whom he back-stabbed), who was not by any stretch of the imagination the public's or media's choice, who had been quietly back-stabbing his way through the ranks to avenge his father who (I think) was ousted in one of the credit card/World Cup tickets scandals in the early 90s and who has since proven himself utterly incapable of doing the job, as the above examples show. This is the power of the clique running the association.
I find your belief in the purity of the association naive, to be honest - no disrespect intended. It's not a case of people doing their best against the general wall that is Irish people's apathy towards their own league. It's a cushy role, held and maintained in a dictatorial fashion where no negative sentiments are allowed to be expressed (e.g. the protests against Givens and Delaney and the fines for negative articles in official publications) and where outside opinions are not welcomed (viz. the association's appalling record at actually bothering to get back to people).
Great post pineapple stu! What dya mean by personal file though?
May we add to the list of complaints the FAI proposing a new league structure without discussing it before hand with any supporters? And proposing it a month away from the start of the league season so as there is no time for any debate on the issue. Also, presenting this as a part of the Genesis Report when the report in fact said:
A second round of stakeholder consultation should be carried out. This document should be issued in advance to all those to be consulted and the document and its recommendations discussed and debated.
That was a joke.
The rest wasn't.
Doesn't that say more about the Cork chairman than FAI 'muscle'.
In what way? The Cork chairman made public his grievances - I don't see why he should retract them so suddenly. It's easy to see how much leaning power the FAI have though...especially with invitational leagues and the like.
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