Love Ulster March

[Kingdom]

I think the vast majority of citizens of the republic are republicans



Unfortunately the word has been hijacked by the few to mean something undesirable.

I suppose I meant it in the "Traditional" sense of the words Pete. I don't go round saying Ticofaidh ar la or any of that muck, it may of happened during school alright (impressionable feller I was ), but I just don't go in for any of it.

[Marked Man]

I think the vast majority of citizens of the republic are republicans



Unfortunately the word has been hijacked by the few to mean something undesirable.

Those who are republican in the sense in which the term is used in the context of Irish politics haven't hijacked the term. After all, what they want is precisely that the six counties of N.Ireland not be ruled by a country which has a longstanding system of the head of state being passed on by heredity.

If your problem with some of those in Ireland who consider themselves Republican is that they subscribe to the use of violence as a means to bring about a constitutional system of government with no heredity, then fair enough. But then your dispute is not with republicans per se, but only with violent ones; and it's not with the hijacking of a term, it's rather with the means pursued.

[Block G Raptor]

I have a degree in history and cant name them...

You Should be ashamed to admit that

[jebus]

That's all very well, but how many in Dublin or elsewhere were arsed to protest? Not very many were that put out they felt the need to protest/ riot/ loot (delete as applicable).

Well from the looks of what happened on saturday it was quite a sizeable crowd that felt the need to protest/ riot/ loot (delete as applicable). And you don't take into account people who had to work on saturday, or had other commiments, not to mention how expensive it is to get from Limerick/Cork/Galway/non-Leinster. And you also don't take into account the fact that certain people can be opposed to something without actually doing anything about it, its what we generally call being Irish*

* Just want to make sure thats not mis-quoted/taken out of context by saying that 'being Irish' as I put it is supposed to mean being put out, or being opposed to certain groups/laws/taxes/etc. but not being bothered to actually do anything other than complain about it.

[Dodge]

And you also don't take into account the fact that certain people can be opposed to something without actually doing anything about it, its what we generally call being Irish.

And of course there are loads of pole who were hugely gainst it but knew there'd be trouble at it so decided to stay away. And of course those who were against it but didn't want to be associated with RSF and the like...

[jebus]

And of course there are loads of pole who were hugely gainst it but knew there'd be trouble at it so decided to stay away. And of course those who were against it but didn't want to be associated with RSF and the like...

Exactly, I know a lot of people who were totally against it but didn't go up to Dublin for one reason or another, I only went up myself to take some photos for my college course, if I hadn't been doing this course I'd have gone to work as usual and read about it in the papers the next day, but I still would have been against it.

[Pat O' Banton]

Really helped sell the republic as non-sectarian state there lads, really brought forward a United Ireland.

Finding mysrelf agreeing with Macy is not siomething that happens ofter but here it is.

How did the rioting convince people from the Orange tradition that they would have nothing to fear from a united Ireland, how did it do anything to convince them that their traditions, however much we disagree with them, would be respected.

People seem not to realise that many things go into the make up of the history and traditions of a country, some you like some you don't. In any future united Ireland the Orange tradition will have to be recgonised as much as the green one.

However, come the day a united Ireland happens eventually happens I fear that there will be a major rush to expunge signs of Britain's influence in Ireland that the real difference that it should make, irradicating poverty and creating a better society for all regardless of background will be lost. 'If all we do is to change the colour of the postboxes from red to green, then we the influence of imperialism and capitalism will remain' to paraphrase the great James Connolly.

[Pat O' Banton]

All your information is second hand. Ireland has changed a lot in the last few years. You cant beat first hand knowledge of a situation. People who were in Dublin and saw what went on have more right to comment than British people living in London pontificating on something they saw on the telly.

Oooo, I have a British address but was in Ireland at the time of the rioting, so do I have the right to comment or maybe as I was in Ireland but have the British address maybe I can go halfway and ask a question.

Anyways I look forward to hearing your views on any subject beyond the national boundry which will obviously be as half baked as these type of comments.

[klein4]

just take the post for what it is and in context and dont be tryin to infer your own meaning on it.

[Macy]

Exactly, I know a lot of people who were totally against it but didn't go up to Dublin for one reason or another, I only went up myself to take some photos for my college course, if I hadn't been doing this course I'd have gone to work as usual and read about it in the papers the next day, but I still would have been against it.

I'll bow to your and dodge's superior knowledge of what the silent majority think - It's all the proof I need anyway.

[thejollyrodger]

i couldnt sit and read all of the pages but basically I was sad to see the violance in Dublin. As much as I hate the Orange Order / White supremacist / Love Ulster I didnt want to see the parade not go ahead.

[motorcycleman]

Last Saturday's parade in Dublin was not an Orange,UVF,UDA parade as is often mentioned on these pages.
It was organised by a coalition of victims' groups in Northern Ireland, led by F.A.I.R.
It was to highlight their suffering caused by 40 years of terrorist brutality.

That hate filled and intolerant minority that caused Saturdays trouble needs to be exposed for the thugs thay are.
They are the tail (of this State) wagging the dog (the State).How do you they define what being "Irish" is ?
For some it's perhaps exclusively being (into the G.A.A.,Gaelic speaking,cheili music,Wolfe tone's rebel music,R.C.,anti-British,anti-Protestant,fond of the black stuff etc.,etc.).
So much for cherishing all the people of Ireland equally.
Damien Kiberd's Newstalk 106 FM mocking people of the Protestant and unionist tradition on the morning of the Parade and recent comments from the President & Fr. Reid comparing unionists to Nazis didn't help either.
The inclusive harmony between the orange and green traditions as represented by the Republic's national flag appears to be a long way off.

The majority of people in Northern Ireland have a different (view/brand) of Irishness also.
They view themselves as Irish as well as British .
Is it any different for someone in the U.S. being proud to identify themselves as Irish/American ?

Last year threats and intimidation in Cork stopped an invited Orange Lodge partaking in the St.Patrick's day parade.
The Order was founded in Ireland and still operates in Ireland.
Whether it's liked or not ,it's still part of Ireland's history and culture.

Looking to the future and hopefully not straying too far off the topic.
Not a huge fan,however I admire what the four band members of U2 have done for Ireland's positive image across the World.
A band made up of different faith's and backgrounds who have come together in respect,tolerance and accomodation for each other.

Here's to the future of a more tolerant,open Ireland.

[Dodge]

I'll bow to your and dodge's superior knowledge of what the silent majority think - It's all the proof I need anyway.

Nowhere did I speak about the majority Macy. I'm just going on what people I know have said and general chit chat. Im not saying it was a majorty of people but to say it was only those who protested is wrong

[Roverstillidie]

but motorcylcle man, if FAIR is such a peaceloving and innocent group with no paramiltary or orange connections, why the orange/apprentice boys bands and the placard to the man suspected of the dubln and monaghan bombings (the biggest atrocity of the troubles) as a victim of ira murder?

the violence was appaling, but dont play the innocent protestant card. the march set out to provoke. the scale of the reaction is whats interesting.

if this was simply loyalist victims of the ira laying a wreath, having a prayer service etc. do you think dublin would have erupted?

[dancinpants]

In response to Motorcycle man, if they wanted to march in the memory of victims, why not march in the memory of ALL victims who died at the hands of ALL groupings (Republican/Loyalist/Police/Army) ? What was their rational in concentrating solely on Protestant victims of IRA violence? And having an Orange Band in attendance? The answer is because that wouldn't have provoked the reaction they wanted (and got last Saturday). I don't agree with, in any shape or form, the violence that took part...but the sole purpose of this march was to cause a reaction and harden the attitude of the average Protestant in the 6 counties. The strategy worked a treat - rod out, bait set and RSF took it hook line and sinker.

If the march had been let go, and everyone just ignored it point blank...it would have sent a much more powerful image out, than having a load of scumbags wreck their own city.

[mypost]

What was their rational in concentrating solely on Protestant victims of IRA violence? And having an Orange Band in attendance? The answer is because that wouldn't have provoked the reaction they wanted (and got last Saturday). I don't agree with, in any shape or form, the violence that took part...but the sole purpose of this march was to cause a reaction and harden the attitude of the average Protestant in the 6 counties.

If the march had been let go, and everyone just ignored it point blank...it would have sent a much more powerful image out, than having a load of scumbags wreck their own city.

Dubliners are a peaceful, tolerant lot. There are many different types of protests on the streets of our city every year, whether it be about abortion issues, culchie farmers taking their issues to Leinster House, teachers/nurses on strike, Sinn Fein rallies, anti-American/globalisation demos, etc, etc. However these are protests from Irish people who live in our country, pay taxes to the government, and intend to protest peacefully.

However, when marches are from British people who hate our country, our customs, our values, our people, our political policies, burn our flag, throw blastbombs at Irish children going to school, attempt to oppress Irish people as much as possible, and set out to provoke violence, the very principle of a Loyalist/Orange Order march in Dublin city centre crossed the borderline for many Dubliners, and Irish people in general.

As regards reports that only disadvantaged youths were responsible for the violence that followed, is that the case in Belfast and Derry every summer? Maybe, but it's also anger from nationalists that Loyalists just can't restrict their marches to their own people, they wish to rub Nationalists noses in the dirt too. The same culchies who criticised the disorder in Dublin, would react the same if such a march was allowed in their town. The reaction to the march in Dublin, would be the same anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland.

The cost of the riots in terms of lost business, the policing bill, Dublin's image abroad, is far greater than some authorities' ghastly decision to consider that a British march could pass off peacefully in our capital city. The message from Irish people in O'Connell Street last week was loud and clear. Marchers representing the United Kingdom are not welcome in the Republic of Ireland. Stay at home. If they didn't know that before, they should know it now.

[Poor Student]

Marchers representing the United Kingdom are not welcome in the Republic of Ireland. Stay at home. If they didn't know that before, they should know it now.

And that doesn't say anything about or tarnish our image abroad?

[Dr.Nightdub]

They're Unionists. Get it, UNIONists? They want to maintain the union with Britain. To them, we're a foreign people with a foreign government. So seeing as they're so precious about being British, if they want to lodge a protest to the Irish government, let them do it at the Irish embassy in London.

Down the road though, it's a timebomb waiting to go off in our midst. If and when there's a 32-county Ireland, we'll have a nice little ethnic minority of our own to get stroppy. That'll be an interesting illustration of the poverty of nationalism - how are we gonna deal with that?

[dfx-]

The message from Irish people in O'Connell Street last week was loud and clear. Marchers representing the United Kingdom are not welcome in the Republic of Ireland. Stay at home.

Let me rephrase that. The message from a bunch of idiots last Saturday was loud and clear. And it's time it was muffled for good.

To the second part: We are highly tolerant and welcoming nation, as long as you don't upset some idiots.

Also the "authorities ghastly decision" to allow the march, however much you disagree with it, means that decision should be final. You can try and lay as much blame at 'the authorities' as you like, it still doesn't get away from what a brigade of lunatics got up to last week. That's where the problem lies and for the fear of repeating myself, that's where things have to change, not among 'the authorities'.

[mypost]

They're Unionists. Get it, UNIONists? They want to maintain the union with Britain. To them, we're a foreign people with a foreign government. So seeing as they're so precious about being British, if they want to lodge a protest to the Irish government, let them do it at the Irish embassy in London.

Hit the rock on the ground there!!

it still doesn't get away from what a brigade of lunatics got up to last week. That's where the problem lies

The reaction would be the same in Cork, Limerick, Galway, or anywhere else in Ireland. Are they all lunatics, or making a point? I think the latter. That's what happens when governments do what they like, instead of listening to the voice of the overwhelming majority of people they claim to represent.

Predictably, McDowell refuses to accept responsibility for it, and still hasn't resigned from the cabinet.