Love Ulster March

**Speranza** · 28/02/2006, 3:04 PM

Pete, you claim that the march was not an Orange march. If so why did the organisers feel the need to invite marching bands? What was their role in the demo?

IMO the role of the bands was to provoe the type of people who looted and riot and to use the actions of this lunatic fringe of Republicanism to tranish the agenda of Republicanism as a whole. This was not a protest it was a direct plea from Unionism to Nationalists to cause mayhem which could be said to be typical of any future 32 county Ireland.

The bands, Willie Frazier not promising that pictures of the Dublin bomber would be carried, the flags, the rhetoric.....this was all meant to get the people of Dublin furious and baying for blood.

**Marked Man** · 28/02/2006, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

So let me get this straight. The validity of someone's views, and the strength of the arguement they present to support those views, is based NOT upon the quality of the opinions they present, the evidence they provide to support them, and thereby the overall strength of their arguement - but has more to do with where they are geographically located at the particular time that they make that arguement ??

:

Didn't you imply in an earlier post that the opinions of those who unfurl a "Bloody Sunday" banner without ever having been to Derry were not valid?

**Block G Raptor** · 28/02/2006, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Marked Man

those who unfurl a "Bloody Sunday" banner without ever having been to Derry

| would like to chalenge those who unfurled the banner to name even one of the victims who died on bloody sunday then we'd see the validity of their opinion

**Dotsy** · 28/02/2006, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Speranza

The bands, Willie Frazier not promising that pictures of the Dublin bomber would be carried, the flags, the rhetoric.....this was all meant to get the people of Dublin furious and baying for blood.

The people of Dublin weren't furious and baying for blood. The people of Dublin showed that they are grown up and secure enough in our own identity to rise above any perceived provocation by the marchers.

It was mainly a crowd of 200/300 little hooligans who used it a perfect excuse for have a go at the guards and get their hands on some new tracksuits without paying. This should have been anticipated by the gardai management and dealt with appropriately without letting it get out of hand.

**Speranza** · 28/02/2006, 3:25 PM

I didn't claim the people of Dublin rose to the provocation. I said that the Love Ulster group did everything in their power to bring about a situation where the riots e.t.c. would occur weather it be 100's or 1000's they didn't really care. One stone throwing incident would have meant success for their agenda.

**dcfcsteve** · 28/02/2006, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by Marked Man

Didn't you imply in an earlier post that the opinions of those who unfurl a "Bloody Sunday" banner without ever having been to Derry were not valid?

In the full context of my statement, yes ! It was to show that the idiots holding up a Bloody Sunday banner with their faces masked are highly unlikely to have any genuine knowledge, understanding, or concern for the event. If they were genuinely concerned about Bloody Sunday - then why did they feel the need to have their identities masked whilst they unfurled the banner ? Let's not kid ourselves here - they were just hijacking a nationalist 'grievance' to have a go at the Love Ulster lot. I didn't say their views were invalid unless they had actually been eyes witnesses to Bloody Sunday, or in the city at the time that they produced their banner - which is exactly the type of nonesense that is being touted on here as the only way to have a valid opinion !

If they were genuinely concerned about Bloody Sunday, they could make the effort of going on one of the annual commemoration marches that occurs in the city, for example, or visit the monument in Rossville Street. But i doubt they really give a feck about Bloody Sunday. As Block G said - they'd struggle to name you a single person who got shot that day. I reckon they'd even struggle to tell you the year, let alone the actual date....

**Marked Man** · 28/02/2006, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

| would like to chalenge those who unfurled the banner to name even one of the victims who died on bloody sunday then we'd see the validity of their opinion

I couldn't name one of the people who died as a result of the Nagasaki bombing; I don't see how that invalidates an opinion regarding the moral status of the bombing. In general, I don't see it as a necessary precondition on a moral judgment that you have to be able to name the victims.

**pete** · 28/02/2006, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Marked Man

I couldn't name one of the people who died as a result of the Nagasaki bombing; I don't see how that invalidates an opinion regarding the moral status of the bombing. In general, I don't see it as a necessary precondition on a moral judgment that you have to be able to name the victims.

Have you been unveiling Posters with your identify hidden? Have you attacked any US parades recently & gone on a rampage. Its fairly obvious now that RSF used the unionists protest to encourage local scumbags to attack the gardai (of the state they do not recognise but hid under its protection in the past) & people on the other side that they have bigotted opinions of.

99.9% of couldn't care less if some marching band went down O'Connell st. There was no peaceful protest by locals. RSF just used this as excuse to import their bigotry to the Republic. Most people in the Republic do not want anything to do with that.

**1 9 2 8** · 28/02/2006, 6:19 PM

The title of this thread should be changed it wasn't Republicans rioting it was local teenagers attacking the cops

**Dodge** · 28/02/2006, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by pete

99.9% of couldn't care less if some marching band went down O'Connell st.

I;d disagree with that pete. I'd guess quite a lot of people didn't want to happen.

99.999% weren't involved in the riots. Don't think that only those involved inn the riots were against this. And don't think all those against it were republicans either

**Soper** · 28/02/2006, 7:55 PM

All I know is that right now some chaps are enjoying free Nike trainers

**Block G Raptor** · 01/03/2006, 8:31 AM

Originally Posted by Marked Man

I couldn't name one of the people who died as a result of the Nagasaki bombing; I don't see how that invalidates an opinion regarding the moral status of the bombing. In general, I don't see it as a necessary precondition on a moral judgment that you have to be able to name the victims.

Thats a fair point to a degree but I think that anyone with a real interest in the history of this country(particularly the "troubles") would have no problem naming most if not all of the victims of one of the worst cases of mass murder this country has ever seen

**klein4** · 01/03/2006, 9:35 AM

I have a degree in history and cant name them...

**pete** · 01/03/2006, 9:40 AM

If people disagreed with the protest march enough they could have had a peaceful protest. Since there seems to have been no protest then i can assume they didn't care enough about it.

Most people are bored of the constant bickering my minorities on both sides in Northern Ireland & don't want it imported down here.

**klein4** · 01/03/2006, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by pete

Most people are bored of the constant bickering by minorities on both sides in Northern Ireland & don't want it imported down here.

I would say that is the view of the majority down here.

**pete** · 01/03/2006, 9:44 AM

What really happened...

**jebus** · 01/03/2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by pete

99.9% of couldn't care less if some marching band went down O'Connell st. There was no peaceful protest by locals.

Thats not true at all, most people I've talked to in Limerick and Cork about it anyway didn't want to see the UVF marching down O'Connell St. They also didn't want to see the RSF tearing the streets apart but thats besides the point. I reckon a good 50% of people wouldn't want Unionists marching through Dublin, whilst about 25% would be undecided (i.e. don't care either way). Just a rough estimate on people from work, college, friends etc. that I've talked to about it.

and I have to ask if you were there on Saturday or are you just going on what you've read or seen in the media? Because if you actually made your way up to the church (i think it was a church anyway, certainly looked like one) where the UVF/LoveUlster parade had gathered behind the guards then you would have seen plenty of people peacefully demonstrating against the march. They held placards about UVF attrocities and stood, for the most part quietly, to see what was going to happen. The most you got out of them was a couple of Rebublican chants and a cheerio chant when the UVF were being boarded back on to their buses.

If you don't consider that peaceful then I'd like to point out that the innocents of LoveUlster played a few Unionist songs and shouted back some anti-Irish bile at the protestors at times.

**Macy** · 01/03/2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by jebus

Thats not true at all, most people I've talked to in Limerick and Cork about it anyway didn't want to see the UVF marching down O'Connell St. They also didn't want to see the RSF tearing the streets apart but thats besides the point. I reckon a good 50% of people wouldn't want Unionists marching through Dublin, whilst about 25% would be undecided (i.e. don't care either way). Just a rough estimate on people from work, college, friends etc. that I've talked to about it.

That's all very well, but how many in Dublin or elsewhere were arsed to protest? Not very many were that put out they felt the need to protest/ riot/ loot (delete as applicable). Of course people are going to say they don't want it now - but I'd say many would say because of the hassle the thick republicans* caused not because of the rally itself.

*They're thick because they were played like the lambeg they were trying to stop by the unionists. Really helped sell the republic as non-sectarian state there lads, really brought forward a United Ireland.

**Kingdom** · 01/03/2006, 1:09 PM

I've been reluctant to post on the topic because there seems to be little debate, as opposed to the usual rhethoric spouted from the Republicans. I wouldn't consider myself to be Republican or Nationalist, as I've not done enough research on the topic, but I certainly would sympathise with what happened to Northern Catholics during the troubles though. I think I typed what I meant to say.

Anyway my take on the whole sorry issue would be this. Republicans are all for a 32 county united Ireland. Fair enough. It is Ireland we're talking about. But for a 32 county state to appear , the Unionist/loyalist/Protestant community will have to be taken on. Their customs and ways of life will also have to assimilated into this "ideal" republican state. As seems to be the case in recent years, the Ulster Nationalists/Republicans seem to be willing to concede more group than the Ulster Protestants/Loyalists, and this march by an Ulster group, was a way of showing to the world, WE (Republicans) ARE THE BIGGER PEOPLE. This is as clear as day to me. It would have shown the world that these people and their beliefs can be integrated into our society, and we can interact. Because in a democratic, 32 county republic encompassing all creeds, colours and religions, this will have to happen.

But now as a result of what happened at the weekend, the yobs or Republicans or whoever that protested violently, and more to the point attacked their own kind, never mind the people they were opposed to, showed the city up as full of bigots.

I've seen loads of comments (not just on these boards) about "those fcukers shouldn't be walking past the GPO" or "Orange b@stards" and the like. My feelings toward the images in the papers and some of the frankly stupid posts on this forum is nothing short of rage.
Half of the cnuts (that supposedly are the next wave of republican youth) caught in the papers are the same fcukers who wouldn't think twice of having a p!ss on the side of the GPO, those abusing the marchers as "proddie b@stards" or whatever, how many of those would be in a position to question another persons faith or religion? Very few I would imagine.
The vast majority of people in this country are afraid to express their own opinion and just follow along like bloody lemmings when things like this surface. It was interesting to read in the papers that I read, the only people referencced to questioning the actions of the mob were the elderly.

Perhaps this was more of a rant, than a properly composed post, but when I see people claiming that 90% of the country didn't want to see the march, I had to post something. The vast majority in this country , in my opinion as I'm too humble to claim that I would represent the voice of 4 million odd people, are completely indifferent to whether or not an Ulster group attempt to march peacefully through a few streets of out capital. It's a pity the Republicans couldn't see it that way, because in a strange twist of fate, if there long-term goal comes to fruition (32 county Republic) this type if march could legally happen every week.

Ps I'm not a Unionist.

K.

**pete** · 01/03/2006, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kingdom

I wouldn't consider myself to be Republican or Nationalist, as I've not done enough research on the topic, but I certainly would sympathise with what happened to Northern Catholics during the troubles though. I think I typed what I meant to say.

I think the vast majority of citizens of the republic are republicans

Republican; a belief in a constitutional system without a hereditary element.

Unfortunately the word has been hijacked by the few to mean something undesirable.