Love Ulster March

**dcfcsteve** · 26/02/2006, 1:54 PM

There are zero excuses for what happened yesterday.

To put it all in context - there are Bloody Sunday marches every single year in Derry and in several cities in Britain (London, Glasgow, Manchester). Very occassionally in the past these have been 'attacked' by small groups of NF/BNP. But every single time they have been able to pass off either peacefully, or with the Police effectively controlling any anti-demonstration protestors.

Now - I know that Bloody Sunday is in many ways a different event than that which Love Ulster would have been drawing attention to. But the ostensible aim of their parade was a protest about IRA murders. Just like Bloody Sunday is a protest about British Army murders.

Likewise - you'll find Easter commemorations passing off peacefully in places like Liverpool, London and Glasgow every year.

So - Irish people are allowed to march unhindered throughout Britain and Northern Ireland in protest at the death of innocents (Bloody Sunday) and in overtly Republican displays (Easter commemorations). Yet British people aren't allowed to do the same in Dublin. By the very people who would be up in arms if any Bloody Sunday or Easter demo was stopped.

The rank hypocrisy of the idiots....

**rebs23** · 26/02/2006, 2:13 PM

So much for cosmopolitan,tolerant Ireland. If we can't even be tolerant of a few hundred orangemen marching through the country's capital city then what hope for the future of integration of all the other cultures into this country.

Neo Nationalists, naked sectarianism. Sumbags the lot of them. Just like the BNP/NF. Anyone making excuses for them should remember that. I was on a Troops Out march in London years ago that got attacked by C18 because we were Irish and thats what yesterday reminded me of.

The loyalists should be invited back down to Dublin to protest again and show the Loyalists/Orangemen/Protestants that we want as citizens of this country that we can accept those with different views, religous identity and national identity in Ireland.

**pete** · 26/02/2006, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by liam88

glad to hear the marchers didn't make it to the GPO-well done to thos ewho stopped it.....shame on those who hurt the guards though

I hope this was an uniformed post in the heat of the moment.

**Poor Student** · 26/02/2006, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The rank hypocrisy of the idiots....

Spot on. I'd quote your whole post but for the rule. It just about sums it up for me Steve. We always criticise the Unionist dominated Northern Ireland from 1920's-1970's for its less than democratic policies and attitudes and profess to love republicanism and democracy yet what we saw yesterday was an affront to these. It does appear the protest against the march was strongly mixed with random scumbags and looters but there appeared to be a planned affront to democracy by someone there yesterday. An absolute disgrace.

I was down O'Connell's St. today and while the road appears to be cleaned up well, there are remains of yesterday's rioting, a sad sight for my eyes this morning.

**liam88** · 26/02/2006, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmo

EDIT: also did I read somewhere that they wouldnt guarantee that there wouldnt be a photo of one of the lads alleged to be involved in the monaghan/dublin bombings paraded outside the GPO

(cant recall where i read that, maybe it was just told to me in the pub - anyone able to dig up that story if true??)

IT WAS ON THIS THREAD:

Originally Posted by liam88

Organisers of a loyalist march through Dublin have said they cannot guarantee that images of a man accused of murdering 26 people in the city will not not be displayed during the demonstration.

Speaking to Daily Ireland yesterday, Love Ulster organiser Willie Frazer said: “I can’t give a guarantee a photograph of Robert McConnell will not be carried because I wouldn’t be against anyone carrying Robert’s photograph.”

This is the equivelant to some walking through Omagh town center with a photo of McKevit!

Mod - PLease don't quote whole posts/articles

**Roo69** · 26/02/2006, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Typical................
suppose us bohs fans were marching. don't bring El football into what has been a sh!t day for al;l of us. there was probably fools who alegedly follow every club in the country throwing stones,petrolbombs,and other various debris there today. I dont care what club they are from they were not representative of those clubs

Eh it's a bit hard not to bring football into it when the 1st tv clip i saw was of a youth wearing Rovers colours on his own at the time hurling stuff at the gardai ! I mentioned it because this is after all an eL message board so thought it was on topic, after all i covered the eL and the riots in the same post, whats so wrong with that ?

**feo123** · 26/02/2006, 6:00 PM

see how many Celtic jerseys there were aswell!

**steveyg2004** · 26/02/2006, 6:45 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

Spot on. I'd quote your whole post but for the rule.

I'm not at all interested in posting about the current topic, but I haven't been on in a while and was just wondering, is there a new rule or something that you shouldn't quote wholesale someone else's post?

**Poor Student** · 26/02/2006, 6:48 PM

Originally Posted by steveyg2004

I'm not at all interested in posting about the current topic, but I haven't been on in a while and was just wondering, is there a new rule or something that you shouldn't quote wholesale someone else's post?

Exactly Stevey. Don't quote entire articles either.

**TonyD** · 26/02/2006, 6:51 PM

I just wonder how much of that "Protest" was genuinely politically motivated and how much of it was just down to opportunistc skangers who found the chance of a bit of aggro just too good to miss. Let's just say I wouldn't imagine that too many of those involved would be the most politically clued in. Whatever, I would think that the Love Ulster crowd got exactly the result they were banking on. How bloody mindless can some people get ?

On a seperate point, and not to excuse the trouble for one second as it was an absolute disgrace, but how in the name of Christ were the Cops caught so badly on the hop ? I've seen some qoutes saying they hadn't expected any trouble

It didn't exactly take a genius to figure out that there was potential for serious trouble. And as for leaving the contents of a building site lying around virtually unguarded and ready for use by anyone scumbag who felt like it.... I'd like to say it was unbelievable, sadly it seems it isn't.

**Poor Student** · 26/02/2006, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by TonyD

but how in the name of Christ were the Cops caught so badly on the hop ?

You're right. On the news last night you could see the Garda� on the front line being pelted with big missiles without even a helmet let alone riot gear.

**Block G Raptor** · 26/02/2006, 8:18 PM

just hearing on the rte news that Gardai will use cctv footage to make more arrests. good enough for the neanderthal muppetts

**Beavis** · 26/02/2006, 9:14 PM

If the KKK held a rally in our streets, wouldnt it be necessary to demonstrate that such ideals were not tolerated in the city? Loyalists are racist and sectarian and I think the protests(not the violence) were justified.

**dcfcsteve** · 26/02/2006, 9:23 PM

Originally Posted by TonyD

On a seperate point, and not to excuse the trouble for one second as it was an absolute disgrace, but how in the name of Christ were the Cops caught so badly on the hop ?

Because the Irish police are quite frankly pathetic. I've had the good fortune to live in and visit various places around the world. In pretty much every other country I would feel a healthy degree of respect towards the Police there. So, for example, if they told me to do something, I'd take their request seriously. Not so the muppets in the Guards. I have NEVER, EVER been able to take the Gardai seriously. If a Garda told me to do something that I didn't want, I'd just tell them to catch themselves on. Why ? Because their physical presence and their modus operandi is far from assertive/intimidatory, and quite simply because I know I'd get away with it. In England, I wouldn't even chance it - as I know I'd be in the back of a squad car before I knew it.

The next time you're in Britain, take a good look at any Police you see. Then compare them to the Gardai you see wandering around in Ireland - short, slim of stature, young, usually scared and inexperienced looking, very passive and unassertive body language etc - and tell me who you'd be more likely to be afraid/respectful of and listen to.

On top of that, I can't think of a single example of large scale public disorder where the Gardai have been effective. Whether it was Republican riots/funerals in the 1980's, Lansdowne Rd in 1994, or anti-capitalist protests more recently - the Garda are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS when it comes to handling large mobs intent on trouble. This is probably, and thankfully, because it doesn't happen very often in Ireland. But they should still be receiving the necessary training for the few occassions when it does.

**dcfcsteve** · 26/02/2006, 9:26 PM

Originally Posted by Beavis

If the KKK held a rally in our streets, wouldnt it be necessary to demonstrate that such ideals were not tolerated in the city? Loyalists are racist and sectarian and I think the protests(not the violence) were justified.

No-ones disagreeing with the right to protest Beavis. I think you'll find it's the supposedly-Republican mobs who turned out yesterday who do not respect your point. They were the ones determine that their protest should stop another protest from happening.

**BobbySands** · 26/02/2006, 11:30 PM

To me, the most shocking thing about the riot is the amount of "bring back the birch, hangings too good and deport the scumbags" neo facists there are on this forum.

As for those nice unionists whose parade was ruined. Boo hoo. Let this be an end to their nonsense.

**hamish** · 26/02/2006, 11:35 PM

Yeah, and here was innocent little me expecting to see water cannons blasting those thugs but I should have known better.

I'm trying to dissaude my godson from joining the Gardai this summer. At least he's 6'3" and has a second dan in martial arts and experience as a bouncer at various nightclubs so he has a no problem with looking after himself but with the lip service that McDowell and co. give to the cops what chance have any new Gardai to be properly trained to cope with ANY social problems?

Then we have the new volunteer Community police force - or whatever it's called - another way of McDowell and this government doing things on the cheap. Typical. Plenty of fluff but no substance.

**mypost** · 27/02/2006, 2:32 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Because the Irish police are quite frankly pathetic. I have NEVER, EVER been able to take the Gardai seriously. If a Garda told me to do something that I didn't want, I'd just tell them to catch themselves on. Why ? Because their physical presence and their modus operandi is far from assertive/intimidatory, and quite simply because I know I'd get away with it.

The next time you're in Britain, take a good look at any Police you see. Then compare them to the Gardai you see wandering around in Ireland - short, slim of stature, young, usually scared and inexperienced looking, very passive and unassertive body language etc - and tell me who you'd be more likely to be afraid/respectful of and listen to.

On top of that, I can't think of a single example of large scale public disorder where the Gardai have been effective. Whether it was Republican riots/funerals in the 1980's, Lansdowne Rd in 1994, or anti-capitalist protests more recently - the Garda are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS when it comes to handling large mobs intent on trouble. This is probably, and thankfully, because it doesn't happen very often in Ireland. But they should still be receiving the necessary training for the few occassions when it does.

It was alarming to think that the Garda� were incapable of dealing with the trouble during the march. This was not a normal march slating the government over the health crisis, or about the public's disaffection with corrupt politicians. There were 2 demos on in roughly the same place with a heavy political slant, and over such a sensitive issue, it should have been policed efficiently.

From what I saw, the guards had no protection, lacked direction, armoury, and intelligence. For defence, some had no shields, no batons, no water cannon, and no teargas available to combat the rioters either. Noone stopped thugs looting, burning, damaging property, police cordons were constantly broken, and those who did baton charge were tardy, and erratic. Most garda� are culchies who come from peaceful towns well away from cities, who have rarely, if ever, witnessed any serious public disorder, and have little idea of how to police a difficult situation. That's what they came up against, and they failed miserably in their task.

However, blame still lies solely with the government for allowing the march to go ahead. There would have been no trouble otherwise.

**CollegeTillIDie** · 27/02/2006, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by TonyD

I just wonder how much of that "Protest" was genuinely politically motivated and how much of it was just down to opportunistc skangers who found the chance of a bit of aggro just too good to miss. Let's just say I wouldn't imagine that too many of those involved would be the most politically clued in. Whatever, I would think that the Love Ulster crowd got exactly the result they were banking on. How bloody mindless can some people get ?

Petrol bombs made up in advance were not the work of opportunistic scangers. That was premeditated action and planned well in advance.
apparently they were stashed in some laneways not far from O'Connell Street.

**gspain** · 27/02/2006, 7:57 AM

Originally Posted by TonyD

I just wonder how much of that "Protest" was genuinely politically motivated and how much of it was just down to opportunistc skangers who found the chance of a bit of aggro just too good to miss. Let's just say I wouldn't imagine that too many of those involved would be the most politically clued in. Whatever, I would think that the Love Ulster crowd got exactly the result they were banking on. How bloody mindless can some people get ?

On a seperate point, and not to excuse the trouble for one second as it was an absolute disgrace, but how in the name of Christ were the Cops caught so badly on the hop ? I've seen some qoutes saying they hadn't expected any trouble

It didn't exactly take a genius to figure out that there was potential for serious trouble. And as for leaving the contents of a building site lying around virtually unguarded and ready for use by anyone scumbag who felt like it.... I'd like to say it was unbelievable, sadly it seems it isn't.

A bit of both I'm sure.

It was well planned and orchestrated by those who wanted trouble in the Republican Movement and also local scumbags took their chance for a bit of rioting and looting too.

I wouldn't be too hard on the Gardai. They are not used to dealing with this scale of trouble. They were caught out badly though.