Love Ulster March

**Lim till i die** · 18/01/2006, 12:50 PM

Surprised no ones brought this up yet (possibly because it will result in a flame war that will consume us all!) but just wondering what peoples opinion on the orange order marching in Dublin next month is??

Personally I'm not sure whether I belong to the "Holy Mother of God, orangemen outside the Gpo" school of thought or the "Let them off to show themselves up as the bigots they are" school of thought..

(Mods, feel free to delete if innappropriate)

**Lionel Ritchie** · 18/01/2006, 1:24 PM

Just to be clear I don't think this is an official Orange event in any way though there will probably be some Orangemen involved.

I think this is being organised by William Frazers rather tragic LoveUlster "movement" ... a political agitative body with about as much clout, vision and grounding in real politik as Republican Sinn Fein (O Br�daighs tiny band of waifs, strays, handlebar tached nutters and bitter auld cnuts).

The purpose of this march is unclear ...perhaps to show that they can march through the capital of the evil expansionist Republic with impugnity (..and I sincerly hope their march passes off without incident) while their "culture" is harrassed and hounded back up the road in "their own wee country".

I hope their isn't a more sinister motive at play here though i.e. baiting southern barstool republican numptys off their barstools to come out and hurl abuse and anything else to hand so the can show to the world how "persecuted" they are.

Just ignore them and they'll get bored of it ...just like they did with their "long march".

**liam88** · 18/01/2006, 1:50 PM

Nothing should ever allow them to march anywhere near that memorial or the GPO. I'm a long way from the "Tiocfaidh Ar La-Free the North" attitude I once held (early teens

) but this digusts me it really does. Just like if the held an IRA march through Hyde Park, Brighton, Birmingham etc.
If the government allows this they might as well allow loyalists to come to Glasnevian and urinate over the graves. Disgrace.

**Lim till i die** · 18/01/2006, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by liam88

Hi prodile Orangeman in July 1974:

"I am very happy about the bombings in Dublin. There is a war with the Free State and now we are laughing at them'."

Enough said-nothing should ever allow them to march anywhere near that memorial or the GPO. I'm a long way from the "Tiocfaidh Ar La-Free the North" attitude I once held (early teens

) but this digusts me it really does. Just like if the held an IRA march through Hyde Park, Brighton, Birmingham etc.
If the government allows this they might as well allow loyalists to come to Glasnevian and urinate over the graves. Disgrace.

Not sure if thats a fair comparison though I mean the orange order didn't plant those bombs.

And as we have seen in the past our own government is more than capable of urinating on our history.

Don't get me wrong I'm starting to lean more and more towards outrage being honest (Must be my youthful teenage ways

) but Lionel Richie makes a pretty good argument.

BTW heard that Willie Frasier chap on Joe Duffy

Pretty much came across as your average, foaming at the mouth, ignorant, loyalist stereotype

**aido_b** · 18/01/2006, 1:58 PM

Again like Liam I'm not a big republican head but I do think this march is a disgrace. They're going to be marching down a street which is going to be forever linked with Republicanism and being Irish. Maybe if they decided to march away from O Connel St for their cause but I really think they're use of O Connel St is wrong.

Also is it true that the Gardai have said that they can't guarantee the marchers safety? Just something I think I heard when I was home over Christmas ...

**Peadar** · 18/01/2006, 2:05 PM

When all is said and done, it's just people walking down a road.
Ignore it if you don't approve.

**Lim till i die** · 18/01/2006, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by aido_b

Also is it true that the Gardai have said that they can't guarantee the marchers safety? Just something I think I heard when I was home over Christmas ...

I can't see how they could guarentee their safety tbh. I know of a few relatives who'll be ripping up paving stones if it goes ahead

Think theirs a potential disaster for Ireland here, all because Bertie and his ilk, by allowing this march have once again (shock, horror) misread the feelings of the Irish people

**Lionel Ritchie** · 18/01/2006, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by aido_b

Again like Liam I'm not a big republican head but I do think this march is a disgrace. They're going to be marching down a street which is going to be forever linked with Republicanism and being Irish. Maybe if they decided to march away from O Connel St for their cause but I really think they're use of O Connel St is wrong.

Also is it true that the Gardai have said that they can't guarantee the marchers safety? Just something I think I heard when I was home over Christmas ...

when it comes to public assembly in our capital the Gardai couldn't guarantee you a bluster in all of March.

If you're opposed in your outlook to the views of these people as I'm guessing the majority on here would be to varying degree -the best way to frustrate them is to treat them with utmost indifference. In any adversarial situation you ask yourself "what is it my counterpart would like me to do? What could I do that could be of best advantage to him?"
which leads me to....

Originally Posted by Liam88

If the government allows this they might as well allow loyalists to come to Glasnevian and urinate over the graves. Disgrace.

Liam if you've a sharp stinging pain in your jaw right now... well that's a hook. ...and that thing you're gagging on ...? That's bait Liam

**holidaysong** · 18/01/2006, 3:48 PM

Anybody know what date it is on?

**pete** · 18/01/2006, 4:09 PM

Originally Posted by liam88

I am very happy about the bombings in Dublin. There is a war with the Free State and now we are laughing at them'.

I have removed the quote marks as you have referenced that "quote". Please add reference or explain...

**liam88** · 18/01/2006, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I have removed the quote marks as you have referenced that "quote". Please add reference or explain...

That's a bit low removing the quote marks-you could have jsut said-"please reference the quote Liam" rather that point scoring by implying I condone the murder of Twenty Seven (though I'm sure the orange order would say 26) innocent people in any way.

Referance:

http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/may74.html

Originally Posted by Justice for the Forgotten

The UDA Press Officer, Mr. Samuel Smyth, said: 'I am very happy about the bombings in Dublin. There is a war with the Free State and now we are laughing at them'.

To the best of my knowledge Smyth was/is an orangeman.

Seriously the whole idea is just ott political correctness-as aido said the use of O'Connell Street is a disgrace especially. Maybe many in the Republic want want to distance themselves from Republicanism because of the Troubles and that is their choice but this is a step to far. The Orange Order was set up as an anti-Caahtolic organisation and has remained so to this day.

REFERANCE-WIKIPEDIA ORANGE ORDER

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The Order is best known for provocative parades through Catholic neighborhoods which have sometimes sparked violence and riots.

Now based in Carrigaline, near Cork, Reverend Armstrong and his family were forced to leave their home in Limavady, County Londonderry, by loyalist paramilitaries after he spoke out against the bombing of the local Catholic church. He stated that local Orangemen told him at the time that "the bombing was God's work."

O'Connell was a champion of the Catholic Irirsh

REFERENCE-WIKPEDIA DANILE O'CONNELL

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Daniel O'Connell (August 6, 1775 � May 15, 1847), known as The Liberator or The Emancipator, was Ireland's predominant politician in the first half of the nineteenth century. He campaigned for Catholic Emancipation and Repeal of the Union between Ireland and Great Britain. He is remembered in Ireland as the founder of a non-violent form of Irish nationalism, but also for the channelling of Irish politics along sectarian lines by the mobilisation of the Catholic community as a political force.

It's a disgrace and I hope it never happens. If it does I hope it is disrupted and goes badly for the orange order.

**Anto McC** · 18/01/2006, 5:23 PM

The only reason they want to do this is to get a reaction from barstool republicians,if nobody reacts,then the march was pointless

**REVIP** · 18/01/2006, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by liam88

:

To the best of my knowledge Smyth was/is an orangeman.

.

Liam, on what do you base this assertion?

**liam88** · 18/01/2006, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by REVIP

Liam, on what do you base this assertion?

Probably the same as you base your political assertions on-what you've read/learnt. I'm pretty sure he was but on the off chance that he wasn't i've removed the quote. Doesn't change my views though and I can't find a profile to confirm that he was. Having said that he was speaking on behalf of the UDA and (agian from what i've read) wern't the majority of UDA members in 1974 Orangemen?
Ok technically I can't base my quote on that reflecting the view of the orange order and for that reason i've delted the quote-now Pete can you delete your manipulated quotation of me because it's offensive.

**Anto McC** · 18/01/2006, 5:45 PM

Maybe im being naive but if they do march,i cant see as big a deal being made of it as thought

**Bald Student** · 18/01/2006, 6:05 PM

We live in a Republic; Liberty, Equality, Fraternity. You can't call yourself a republican if you don't hold up these values.

The Orangemen have as much of a right to march down that road as anyone else.

**REVIP** · 18/01/2006, 6:15 PM

I'm an English Prod who lived in the North for sixteen years.

As I understand the demographic trends in Northern Ireland, the Nationalist community is likely to constitute a majority in the next two decades. I assume there will then be a referendum to formally constitute a 32 County Republic.

Dublin will then be the capital city for all communities, including the Orangemen, who will persist for a while as a religious organisation. What would then be the attitude towards Orange marches? Would they be barred from their own capital?

If I wanted to really get up the noses of the Loyalists who may come, I would suggest that their visit is an anticipation of the days when Dublin will be their capital; I would give them lists of bars where their Northern Ireland banknotes were welcome and details of where they can see football on a big screen.

There's some line in the Bible about pouring coals of fire on someone's head by being nice to them

**liam88** · 18/01/2006, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by REVIP

There's some line in the Bible about pouring coals of fire on someone's head by being nice to them

Fair play! As I said I got out of the Republican stuff a long time ago. I'm still proud of my Irishness and I sing the odd rheb and have the odd "Republican moment" but when I started reading the history and all about the darker side of the Republican movement I think all the republican ideal stuff went out the window.
On a side note did anyone see that there's not going to be a Bloody SUnday Commemeration in London this year as the protest against Guaentanemo bay falls on the same day so the Bloody Sunday Organisers are sending their delgation to that

**Cosmo** · 18/01/2006, 6:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

The Orangemen have as much of a right to march down that road as anyone else.

Exactly the same right as people have the right to protest over it - theyre just doing it to get a reaction out of people and I'm sure they will. I'l be there on the day anyway if I can

**aido_b** · 18/01/2006, 7:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

We live in a Republic; Liberty, Equality, Fraternity. You can't call yourself a republican if you don't hold up these values.

The Orangemen have as much of a right to march down that road as anyone else.

Just wondering as to why Orangemen have as much of a right as anyone else to march down O Connell St? I don't mean that in an argumentative way, I'm just wondering as to why?