Love Ulster March

[anto1208]

a few weeks ago after the mohamed cartoon pics most people in ireland couldnt see what they were getting so upset about could nt justify any of the actions taken ,because allthough the pics are offensive they kept saying we have freedom of speach in this country , the very same people are now saying the riots where ok because the march was hugely offensive


but i have to say the riots were nothing to do with the march, really it was just an excuses for the scum to rob champion sports ,

[liam88]

I have NEVER, EVER been able to take the Gardai seriously

The next time you're in Britain, take a good look at any Police you see. Then compare them to the Gardai you see wandering around in Ireland - short, slim of stature, young, usually scared and inexperienced looking, very passive and unassertive body language etc - and tell me who you'd be more likely to be afraid/respectful of and listen to.

Sorry Steve but I've got to 100% disagree with you on this one. Firstly outside of London you'll very rarley find and big, intimidating, scary police-quite often you'll get a 20 years old women in a car on her own or a spotty 19 year old fresh out of training. Secondly the majority of "police" in the UK now are Community Saftey Wardens without powers of arrest/CS spray etc.
The police normally come from miles away (Surrey police force is shortly to be run from Kent) and have no knowledge of locals/situations they are walking into.
Also very few police officers on the ground have any idea of legislation.
I was recently involed ina peaceful protest outside a Total petrol station on the International day of Action Against Total. Two police arrived, bullied protestors into giving their names (Which turned out to be illegal and all names were remvoed from record), and trying to move on the prostestors by telling them than the cars beeping their horns in support were causing a breach of the peaace (on a main road!) and every driver who beeped could be find £200! Needless to say the country police force was v. emabressed to hear about this behaviour! Furthermore the police didn't have a clue what the protest was about and had to ask me to explain-it would have taken 2 minutes when they got the call ("the is a protest at the Total station") to phone their buddies in the Met up the road ("any idea about protests at Total petrol stations?") and get the answer ("yea it's the international day of action-big protests at the HQ up here") and then go in on level footing knowing what the protest was about, that it was an international event and being able to talk to the protestors rather than spending the first 20 mintues unsure whether it was a human rights or animal rights protest (despite the mssive "Free Burma" banner!)
Frankl-at groudn level the police force in England are pretty pathetic. MAybe living in London you've got a better view as they obviously have best officers/bestequipment/best organisation-but outside the capital it's a different story. The police here have very little respect and just make it worse by their mis-handling of situation which looses the confidence of those of us who previously held an open mind.

The police round here lsot enough respect when two of them raped a suspect

[klein4]

I actually forgot all about the march and like an idiot went in to town to get some things Saturday.
And cause it was bloody freezing I put me hood up which wasn’t the wisest thing in the world given what was goin on.
Anyways to me it just looked like every little scumbag in Dublin was just running amok and doin what they wanted.
While the police were all runnin into the jervis centre to break up looting people were still goin up the escalators to do their shopping. It was all a bit surreal with a load of people with their camera phones out filming things as if it was all happening as part of some sort bizarre street performance.(more Knacknas than Maccnas) There was a lot of people running around but a lot of them were just tryin to see what was goin on. Cant see how police were to blame. Its not exactly easy to police the streets and laneways around o Connell st on a busy saturday.

[dcfcsteve]

Sorry Steve but I've got to 100% disagree with you on this one. Firstly outside of London you'll very rarley find and big, intimidating, scary police-quite often you'll get a 20 years old women in a car on her own or a spotty 19 year old fresh out of training.

Sorry Liam - I may not have been born in England, but I've been here for nearly as many years as you have (15th year this October). I've also lived in 3 very different of England - 6yrs in Bath, 3yrs in Newcastle, 6 years in London. Furthermore - I have been to and am familiar with literally every single significant town and city in England - Newcastle, Sunderland, Carlisle, Middlesborough, Blackpool, Preston, Manchester, Liverpool, Chester, York, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, Hull, Birmingham, Coventry, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Bristol, Bath, Plymouth, Exeter, Portsmouth, Southampton, Bournemouth, Canterbury, Norwich, Reading, London.. And most on that list I've been to on numerous occassions - not just 'passing through' once or twice. In fact - the only significant population centres in England I can think of that I HAVEN'T spent any time in are Ipswich and Stoke. With all due respect, I would think that puts me in a fairly healthy position to make assertions regarding the country as a whole. And given you're lucky enough to still have youth on your side, I would happily predict that I've seen and experienced a lot more of Engalnd than you have....

So the view I expressed on the comparative merits of the English police versus the Irish are not based solely on experiences gained in London - but are truely national. I can assure you that the Police in sleepy Bath (Avon and Somerset Constabulary) are just as likely to earn my respect as the Police in Brixton, as there appears to be little difference between them in terms of appearance and behaviour.

Conversely - not only do I find the Police in Dublin wholly unconvincing, it's even bloody worse when you head up the country in Ireland ! Apparently, it's the bigger ones they reckon that can handle themselves that they send down to Ath Cliath - leaving the real gimps stationed elsewhere around the island.

Secondly the majority of "police" in the UK now are Community Saftey Wardens without powers of arrest/CS spray etc.

Sorry Liam - but that is simply untrue. The Metropolitan Police in London has 30,000 Officers for example - are you trying to tell me there are over 30,000 CSO's in London now ??

As for your example of the Total protest - firstly, to be fair that was hardly a major public order incident, or a cause that your average policeman would be particularly familiar with. Undoubtedly they didn't handle it well. But if you think the Irish Police are any better, I suggest you Google search on the antics of the Donegal Gardai, for example. If they'd shown up at that Total garage, you'd probably be mid-way through a 10yr scentence for murder right now.......

[dcfcsteve]

I wouldn't be too hard on the Gardai. They are not used to dealing with this scale of trouble. They were caught out badly though.

I disagree strongly.

A Police force should be trained for, and able to tackle, any possible situation that may feasibly arise in the course of their duties. Serious Public Disorder is, indeed, thankfully rare in the Republic. But it does still happen from time-to-time. It's therefore absurd to have a Police force who are completely unprepared for it when it does happen.

We're not talking about a riot breaking out on Inis Mor here. This is Dublin ffs - a major and increasingly important European city.

What's the point in having a Police force if they're completely incapable of Policing infrequent, but nevertheless inevitable, situations ??

[RonnieB]

Just saw coverage of it here in New Zealand, spent the last few hours trying to explain the whole **** mess to other people watching the tv asking "is that what ireland is like?" Explaining the scanger syndrome was hard work!

[jebus]

Well SLK and myself went up to it and were right beside the Parnell monument when it kicked off. All I have to say about the riot itself is that it was at once the most exhilarating, horrifying experience of my life. Still don't know what exactly went on in other places but my account is.....

SLK and myself arrived in Dublin around 12.10, and went straight up O'Connell St to see what was going down. As soon as we stopped at the monument (literally as soon as we stopped walking) some of the rioters started throwing rocks at the guards. They then started ripping up the security barriers and hurling them on top of the riot police and basically trying to intimidate them. At this the riot police charged us and SLK and myself were split up. I was forced down one of the side streets with some of them; I think he went up towards O'Connell St. with the rest of them.

This cat and mouse between the rioters and police went on for another 15 or so minutes, but by this stage I had got around them so as to another group of rioters that were facing up towards the Ambassador. Same deal went on when I was with this crowd. They'd fire abuse, bottles and rocks at the cops and the riot police would charge in. I remember at one stage finding myself near the top of the line when the police charged in with batons and trying to force my way back and some guy telling me to hold the line, balls to that!! At this stage most of the rioters who had initially been forced down the side street with me had gone around and joined the O'Connell St mob so I started around to where the press were to see what photos I could get from there.

Now one criticism I have of the guards on the day was that after doing so well to separate the rioters, they made it very easy to flank them and get to wherever you wanted to be. I say this because as soon as I reached the media I saw that some photographers had gone in to the Parnell monument to get some snaps themselves, so I just ran past the guards and got into the middle. Albeit as soon as I got there I realised it was a bit of a mistake. I couldn't get any great photos from there (I was only using a 35mm-80mm camera for anyone into photography) because I didn't have any decent zoom lens. Not only that but there were rocks flying overhead from all angles. So I got out of there and ran around to join the O'Connell St rioters and get amongst them like I did at the start.

At this stage though the mood had really gotten ugly. Where as at the start of the riot when I had been snapping away I was told twice to put the camera away and don't photos of the rioters themselves, but I hadn't been threatened to put it away, now as soon as I got there I was quickly told to put the '****ing thing away' and then when I didn't I had some big, big Belfast lad with a scarf over his face tell me to put it away or get my jaw broken. So I put it away as manly as you possibly can in that situation, i.e. put it away in 2 seconds flat, find a toilet and change your underwear.

At that then I went up to the top of Parnell Square to see if I could get any photos of the Loyalists, but no-one was getting anywhere near them. And in fairness, contrary to a lot of media reports I've seen, the protesters up there were a peaceful lot. All they did was hold their placards up, sing a few cheerio chants when the Loyalists were told to leave and shout IRA every now and again. After the Loyalists left a lot of them went off to the pub, so I assumed it was all over then so I went to find SLK, which I did down near the Spire, and to be honest I was surprised that the rioters were still going at it with the cops.

We went off to get something to eat then and drop in three of my rolls of film, and by the time we got back the guards had pushed them back beyond the bridge. We had good vantage points for the showers of bottles being thrown at the guards, but lost them when they were chased down towards Stephens Green (don't know the name of that street). We followed the guards down to get a look at what was going on around Fleet St. and that but at that stage I think we had had enough action. So we picked up my photos and got out bus back down to Limerick!

Sorry that went on for ages but I like stories! Anyway in the aftermath I'd put the blame for this happening first off on Love Ulster for purposefully antagonising the republicans (although they obviously have achieved a result here), and then on the rioters for taking things WAY too far. From being in and around them I have to say that the majority were the biggest scumbags I've ever seen. After the Loyalists had left why keep tearing the city apart and attacking even more IRISH people? As one guy said near me after the initial break up of the rioting group, it’s the unionists I want to get down here to attack, not the guards'. Now I'm not condoning tearing the unionists to shreds, but most of the rioters seemed to just be there to chaos a bit of havoc.

But I'd personally put the blame for this straight on to whoever it was that actually had the say in whether this march went ahead or not. Seriously did they not realise there'd be a bit of trouble at it?!? And anyone coming on here protesting that bull**** freedom of speech argument can **** right off. Would you allow a Nazi parade through Amsterdam for example? Nope. Would you allow an Al-Queda support group to march down Time Square? Nope. Would you allow a White Supremacy group to march through Harlem? No. So why is allowing the UVF to march through Dublin any different?

Also SLK I got some cracking photos from the other four rolls back this morning. There are some great ones from in and around the actual riot when it kicked off, so you can look at them, tell me what you want and I'll throw them on a disk for you

[Dodge]

good post jebus

[Lionel Ritchie]

But I'd personally put the blame for this straight on to whoever it was that actually had the say in whether this march went ahead or not. Seriously did they not realise there'd be a bit of trouble at it?!? And anyone coming on here protesting that bull**** freedom of speech argument can **** right off. Would you allow a Nazi parade through Amsterdam for example? Nope. Would you allow an Al-Queda support group to march down Time Square? Nope. Would you allow a White Supremacy group to march through Harlem? No. So why is allowing the UVF to march through Dublin any different?

Also SLK I got some cracking photos from the other four rolls back this morning. There are some great ones from in and around the actual riot when it kicked off, so you can look at them, tell me what you want and I'll throw them on a disk for you

Intersting read jebus though I can't agree on your analysis of who's to blame for this. You're basically saying the right to assemble in a public place is conditional on it not inviting the ire of people who are inclined to attack police and citizenry and steal and destroy public and private property.

Whatever about Wilie frazers ambiguities on lyalist paramilitaries I reckon I've at least as much if not more to fear from the oiks who used our flag to hide their identities while they tore through our rights on saturday.

Any chance you might be sending a set of those prints into Henry street? I'm not being smart ...It's a genuine question.

[eirebhoy]

see how many Celtic jerseys there were aswell!

It'd be hard to find anyone involved in the rioting that wouldn't claim to support Celtic.

[pete]

If the KKK held a rally in our streets, wouldnt it be necessary to demonstrate that such ideals were not tolerated in the city? Loyalists are racist and sectarian and I think the protests(not the violence) were justified.

Moderator Warming:

That comment is completely unfounded & has nothing to do with this thread. Anymore comments like that & thread will be locked.

[Dodge]

Moderator Warming:

That comment is completely unfounded & has nothing to do with this thread. Anymore comments like that & thread will be locked.

Disagree pete. Don't see anything wrong with his post

[pete]

Another Moderator Warning:

I will now be deleting posts on the following:

- Comments on football teams (i will leave existing posts but no more).
- Windup People who offer nothing to the debate here with inflamatory comments.

Debate is good fine but for the actions of a few...

[rebs23]

But I'd personally put the blame for this straight on to whoever it was that actually had the say in whether this march went ahead or not. Seriously did they not realise there'd be a bit of trouble at it?!? And anyone coming on here protesting that bull**** freedom of speech argument can **** right off. Would you allow a Nazi parade through Amsterdam for example? Nope. Would you allow an Al-Queda support group to march down Time Square? Nope. Would you allow a White Supremacy group to march through Harlem? No. So why is allowing the UVF to march through Dublin any different?

So freedom of speech is bull**** and you are equating a cross section of Northern Protestants with Nazi's and in a democratic society we should stop protests on the grounds that they may cause trouble?

[Peadar]

Is there now legitimate reason to cancel the Easter Rising Commemoration Parade?

Is the threat to public safety too great for such an event to take place?

We've witnessed such a degree of lawlessness that it would be fair to conclude every one is a potential target.

[Dotsy]

Jebus are you seriously comparing the paticipants in the Love Ulster parade with the Nazi's or Al Queda. Whether you agree with them or not these are the people that republicans are asking to agree to a united Ireland and who they say will guaranteed parity of esteem. The analogy of Nazis marching in Amsterdam or Al Queda marching in NY doesn't hold up. IMO this was an attack on all our civil liberties. Basically what this mob were saying is that if we don't agree with your opinion we are going to forceably stop you from having a march and expressing it. They denied the marchers the very rights they themselves were been afforded, the freedom to protest peaceably.

[anto1208]

Sorry that went on for ages but I like stories! Anyway in the aftermath I'd put the blame for this happening first off on Love Ulster for purposefully antagonising the republicans (although they obviously have achieved a result here), and then on the rioters for taking things WAY too far. From being in and around them I have to say that the majority were the biggest scumbags I've ever seen. After the Loyalists had left why keep tearing the city apart and attacking even more IRISH people? As one guy said near me after the initial break up of the rioting group, it’s the unionists I want to get down here to attack, not the guards'. Now I'm not condoning tearing the unionists to shreds, but most of the rioters seemed to just be there to chaos a bit of havoc.

But I'd personally put the blame for this straight on to whoever it was that actually had the say in whether this march went ahead or not. Seriously did they not realise there'd be a bit of trouble at it?!? And anyone coming on here protesting that bull**** freedom of speech argument can **** right off. Would you allow a Nazi parade through Amsterdam for example? Nope. Would you allow an Al-Queda support group to march down Time Square? Nope. Would you allow a White Supremacy group to march through Harlem? No. So why is allowing the UVF to march through Dublin any different?

well they are different countries so we cant really use that as reference point , also isnt the nazi party banned and there for its against the law for them to come together in any capacity , Al-Queda support groups meet and march all the time through new york , london etc etc same with the white suppremacy groups ,so i dont see your point .they are alloud because the US and england have freedom of speech we dont . we have freedom of speach as long as you only say what we want you to say .

i get an impression from your story ( i hope im wrong ) that you seem to condone the voilence the line in paticular that caught my attention was "After the Loyalists had left why keep tearing the city apart and attacking even more IRISH people?" like it was ok to do while they were there .


i love the hypocracy of irish people ,they claim the orange order came to "purposefully antagonising the republicans" and they are outraged ,

yet when a paper prints a pic to "purposefully antagonising the musilims" every one wonders whats the fuss , why are they getting upset we have freedom of speech here bla bla bla .

i find most amusing is the republicans using there right to hold a peacefull protest against the orange orders right to march , its a shame the wrong rights got protected the republicans who attacked there own people and country yet again claiming to be fighting for ireland were nt beaten back by the gaurds , but the people who only wanted to march in rememberence were but back on there buses and sent home ,

[pete]

More pictures here

I can't believe some people celebrate stopping the unionist protest while condemn the violence involved. Its like saying freedom of expression not allowed here as long as not violently imposed.

[Beavis]

Moderator Warming:

That comment is completely unfounded & has nothing to do with this thread. Anymore comments like that & thread will be locked.

As with nearly all post, this is an opinion. I have been following the thread and decided to offer my two cents. Where is the problem ?

[liam88]

would happily predict that I've seen and experienced a lot more of Engalnd than you have....

Steve-sorry I persumed that you had spent most of your time in Londain (wasn't sure how long you'd been in the UK) and was generally basing my perception of police on Guildford. Sorry-no offence meant....visit Guildford soemtime and we'll go round have a look at the local police....and the pubs