Interview with that excellent journalist Sy Hersh on CNN today. Scary stuff.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/04/09.html#a7855
Going off topic a bit but read last week that China has the largest foreign currency reserves in the world (just passed out the Japanese). Something like $800 billion. With weakening dollar going to be a lot of chinese companies making US company purchases...
Rhetoric from Bush. A bad moon rising?
Did you ever notice that in every painting of Adam & Eve, they have belly buttons. Think about that...take as long as you want.
Think the top army brass have told him to back off so it's not a runner thank God.Originally Posted by strangeirish
09 April 2006 - from Global News Matrix
Iran shoots down spy plane from Iraq – report
Tehran, Iran, Apr. 09 – Iran said on Sunday that it shot down an unmanned spy plane from Iraq in the south of the country.
“This plane had lifted off from Iraq and was busy filming the border regions”, the semi-official daily Jomhouri Islami wrote.
The plane’s structural markings and systems have given officials “information”, the report added, without elaborating.
There have been reports that the United States has been secretly sending unmanned surveillance planes into Iran to gather intelligence about the country’s nuclear sites.
Last edited by hamish; 10/04/2006 at 7:26 PM.
Khakeej Times
Full text
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...iddleeast&col=
Edited portion below - rest of text already in all media yesterday and today.
Riyadh seeks Russian help to prevent US strike on Iran
(AFP)
11 April 2006
RIYADH - Saudi Arabia, fearing that US military action against Iran would wreak further havoc in the region, has asked Russia to block any bid by Washington to secure UN cover for an attack, a Russian diplomat said on Tuesday.
During a visit to Moscow last week, the head of the Saudi National Security Council “urged Russia to strive to prevent the adoption of a UN Security Council resolution which the United States could use as justification to launch a military assault to knock out Iran’s nuclear facilities,” the diplomat told AFP in Riyadh on condition of anonymity.
Prince Bandar bin Sultan, a former longtime ambassador to the United States who is often tasked with delicate missions, met Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Moscow on April 4.
Saudi officials did not give details about the meeting. The Russian diplomat said the talks focused on the row over Iran’s nuclear program but did not make clear what Moscow’s response was to the call for restraining the United States.
A Gulf diplomat, who also requested anonymity, said Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries were worried about the possibility of US military action against Iran at a time when Iraq is engulfed in what is increasingly turning into civil war.
Gulf Arab states fear the fallout of a US-Iran conflict on the oil-rich region, which has seen three wars since 1980, most recently the 2003 US-led invasion of Iraq, the diplomat said.
Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al Faisal said last week that Riyadh believes Teheran’s assertions about its nuclear activities.
“That is why we don’t see a danger in Iran acquiring knowledge about nuclear energy provided it does not lead to (nuclear) proliferation. Of course, we believe proliferation is a threat,” he said.
Saud also played down Iran’s recent war games during which it tested new weapons, saying the exercises did not pose a threat to Teheran’s Gulf neighbours.
He also said he would visit Iran soon but did not give a specific date.
Bandar earlier visited China, another permanent UN Security Council member with veto power, a trip diplomats in Riyadh believe was also linked to the standoff over Iran’s nuclear activities.
My comment on the above is related to Baby Bush's father Daddy Bush who has massive, billion dollar business connections with Saudi Arabia. Daddy Bush advised against the Iraq invasion so much that Baby Bush now won't answer his calls and they only meet for family events/photo opportunities and PR speil. If the Saudis are worried by Little Georgie hitting Iran one can see some backroom work done here by Daddy Bush with the Saudis. The likes of the Carlisle Group connects up a lot of the Bush/Saudi affairs along with loads of other businesses.
Sad to say, preserving the family business affairs comes first before the little matter of maimed/murdered Iranians. Watch this space and if you see it in any media, remember where you saw it first.
Don't forget either that Walker Bush, Grandaddy Bush, had extensive business connections with the Nazis in Germany as the clouds of war gathered for WW2 and, it is alleged, even after WW2 began.
What a lovely, upstanding, moral family? FFS
Shower of privileged elite that produces another spawn of privileged elite ad infinitum - along with the other scum connected to them (Cheney etc) is it any wonder they have no qualms dumping the little people into war zones without most of them fighting themselves or their kids. - at least Bush the Elder was a genuine soldier and one can see why he's not as likely to alienate other nations and fight foolish wars unilaterlly - take Gulf War One - where, whether one agrees with it ( Ido) or not he even got the UN and even the likes of Bathist Syria to fight against Saddam. Like most soldiers he knows the blood and pain of war.
In the interest of balance and the Iranian situation and the Iranian Bourse, here's a report from Fred Foldvary who argues that an Iranian Bourse will NOT effect the US economy but might help it. Too long to cut and paste.
It's from Information Clearing House. who actually do feature opposite viewpoints.
http://www.progress.org/2006/fold450.htm
One flaw in his argument I think - a move to an Iranian Bourse would hammer the Dow and Nasdaq and, basically stocks/Wall Street thus impacting US interest rates, which will effect business, the market, credit cards, consumer confidence and so and which, eventually will effect the dollar's value. , from an internal US point of view - they might not have strong enough dollar to buy foreign goods and companies and invest abroad.
I report, you decide.
Last edited by hamish; 12/04/2006 at 3:18 AM.
The UN & US allowed Irans neighbours to acquire nuclear weapons with not much of fuse so hypocritical to object to Iran pursuing.
Pete, I think Seymout Hersh did everyone a great favour by that article he wrote last weekend and the subsequent follow up interviews etc. Bushies are now really on the defensive and a number of ex-Generals are hammering them on Iran and Iraq.
Worrying to see the similarities between the lead up to Iraq and Iran though.
Hope the pathetic US media gets up off its collective hole and not cheer lead like it did the last time.
cracking thread lads,
personally speaking, i believe it is very dangerous for a country of such ideaological difference and down right unpredictability to ourselves (western world) to possess such apocolyptic weaponry. I dont believe that they wish to possess such technology solely for energy production.
Iran have been courting dominancy in the middle east for decades and it is actively encouraging shia/ sunni splits
Camac Ultras North Terrace Section
Good point Saint Tom (gimme a blessing, aaah gwan).
You might find this artcile from the Guardian's Simon Jenkins of interest
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...751841,00.html
Excerpt
One country in the region that has retained some political pluralism** is Iran. It has shown bursts of democratic activity and, importantly, has experienced internal regime change. If ever there was a nation not to drive to the extreme it is Iran. If ever there was a powerful state to reassure and befriend rather than abuse and threaten, it is Iran. If ever there was a regime not to goad into seeking nuclear weapons it is Iran. Yet that is precisely what British and American policy is doing. It is completely nuts.
**Dunno about that
Some Steve Bell cartoons on Iran/UN/World
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/s...705076,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/s...689067,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/s...483250,00.html
Last edited by hamish; 13/04/2006 at 2:26 AM.
Once again, the neo-con cabal of chickenhawks are encouraging a war against Iran.
I laugh when they're called "hawks" - doesn't a hawk actually attack things physically. Every single one of these cretins are Vietnam or Gulf War war-dodgers yet they use expressions like "we" when they advocate the US attacking anyone. I've discovered a better name for them - War Pimps.
Article:"To Battle Stations! To Battle Stations!"
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32889
Extract
"Accordingly, it should hit not just the nuclear facilities, but also the symbols of state oppression: the intelligence ministry, the headquarters of the Revolutionary Guard, the guard towers of the notorious Evin Prison."
Chickenhawk definition - Wikipedia
Chickenhawk (also chicken hawk and chicken-hawk) is a political epithet used in United States to criticize a politician, bureaucrat, or commentator who strongly supports a war or other military action, but has never personally been in a war. The term is a deliberate insult, meant to indicate that the person in question is cowardly or hypocritical for personally avoiding combat in the past while advocating that others go to war in the present. Often, the implication is that the person in question lacks the experience, judgment, or moral standing to make decisions about going to war.
US "outsourcing" Special Operations for Iran
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12727.htm
US also signed an agreement with Bulgaria to use military bases there.
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setime.../12/feature-02
Isn't Bulgaria to be a new member of the EU soonish? Shouldn't there be an EU response to this?
Last edited by hamish; 15/04/2006 at 8:35 PM.
Here's a short flash animation on bunkers busters from The Union of Concerned Scientists.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_securit...animation.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12747.htm
Extracts
"Cirincione says he believes there will be secret strikes announced by Bush after they happen. But first, he says, Bush should be expected to go to the U.S. Congress for authorization before mid-term elections in November, while Republicans still control the House of Representatives and the Senate."
Haass also warned that such a strike would likely push oil prices above $100 (U.S.) per barrel, setting off an economic chain reaction that could lead to global recession. He predicts a certain increase in anti-Americanism in Europe, further rage against the U.S. in the Arab and Muslim world, and a questioning of U.S. ties in Russia and China.
From The Times
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12752.htm
There's one thing about the third and second last paragraphs in this report - aren't covert US agents already working undercover with this MEK????
great resources there Hamish
Camac Ultras North Terrace Section
Cheers Saint Tom - TBH - lot lifted from Information Clearing House and sites linked off that.
More stuff later.
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12761.htm
Extract
"The parallels to the run-up to to war with Iraq are all too striking: remember that in May 2002 President Bush declared that there was "no war plan on my desk" despite having actually spent months working on detailed plans for the Iraq invasion. Congress did not ask the hard questions then. It must not permit the administration to launch another war whose outcome cannot be known, or worse, known all too well."
Authors
Richard Clarke and Steven Simon were, respectively, national coordinator for security and counterterrorism and senior director for counterterrorism at the National Security Council.
Clarke was a member of the Bush cabinet for a while.
Last edited by hamish; 17/04/2006 at 9:08 PM.
Some more good stuff
First article is more anti-Israeli lobby in Washington than Israel but they are connected. TBH brutally honest if I was Israeli I would be lobbying too BUT can both be done as well as ensuring the Palestinians get a non-Bantu-like state. Israel would be insane to attack or encourage a US attack on Iran - it makes them LESS safe - Iran supports Hizbullah and now Hamas so you'd have even more suicide bombers if Iran is attacked.
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12778.htm
Extract
"....the premise that a military attack on Iran will cause the people to lose faith in their government and result in regime change.
A military attack on Iran will have the opposite effect. The people will rally to their government, and any hope of regime change will be dead. That people will rally around their existing leaders in the face of an attack by a foreign power is as certain as sunrise. Neither Israel nor the U.S. could do a greater favor for the ruling mullahs and Iran's president than to launch an attack. It would cement their hold on power."
Republican Congressman Ron Paul breaks ranks
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12773.htm
Extract
"But we cannot underestimate the irrational, almost manic desire of some neoconservatives to attack Iran one way or another, even if it means crippling a major source of oil and destabilizing the worldwide economy."
Israel may have to go it alone
http://www.iranmania.com/News/Articl...NewsCode=42058
&NewsKind=Current%20Affairs
I wish the Iranian Mullahs would put a gag on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's mouth - he's just as much a war-pimp as the neo-cons
Why doesn't this bloke do the decent thing and join the Republican party?? He's just a Bush shill.
The following from the Jerusalem Post via ICH
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
Prominent U.S. Physicists Send Warning Letter to President Bush
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12769.htm
Extract
“Once the U.S. uses a nuclear weapon again, it will heighten the probability that others will too,” the physicists write. “In a world with many more nuclear nations and no longer a ‘taboo’ against the use of nuclear weapons, there will be a greatly enhanced risk that regional conflicts could expand into global nuclear war, with the potential to destroy our civilization.”
stratfor's free intelligence report (sort've a geopolitical/business forecasting firm) has this as its conclusion this week:
But first there is the reality that exists now. The United States has too many enemies and too few forces through which to impose its will. As in World War II and the Cold War (the author had previously referred to the u.s. aligning with stalin v. hitler in ww2 and nixon going to china during the cold war), splitting the enemy is a practical imperative that precedes all moral imperatives. In this case, that means playing off the various factions within the Muslim world and making the best deal possible with one power or another. In any deal, the United States will wind up allied with someone that the Americans disapprove of, much as their future ally will disapprove of them.
The United States may well wind up making a deal with Iran over Iraq. Alternatively, a Sunni coalition led by Saudi Arabia might give Washington the opportunity to negotiate with the Baathist guerrillas in the Sunni Triangle. Whichever path is followed, it will be condemned by both left and right for dozens of excellent moral reasons.
Bush has been pursuing the path of pragmatism, however clumsily or adroitly, for months now. He will make a deal with someone because going it alone is not an option. The current situation in Iraq cannot be sustained, and all presidents ultimately respond to reality. Bush might have to eat some words about democracy and the United States' commitment thereto, but if Roosevelt could speak of the Four Freedoms while working with Josef Stalin, all things are possible.
Just because Iran build a nuke doesn't mean they'll use it. They are as entitle to a nuclear DETERRENT as anyone. I seriously doubt they would use one anyway - despite there Presidents wish to wipe Israel off the map. Bottom line is if Iran where to attack Israel with a nuke - IRAN would be wiped off the map the next day. The States ain't gonna use a nuke in Iran because its just not that clear cut. A recent study revealed (can't remember the source - sorry!) that if the US dropped one of their bunker buster nukes everything within a 100 mile radius would die, BUT almost as bad as that - the fall out could reach as far as India. There's far too many toes to step on.
Apparently they are years away from having the capability of producing a nuclear bomb anyway. Containment of Iran is the best bet right now.
When "Diplomacy" Means War
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12785.htm
Extract
When reality can't hold a candle to perception, then reality is apt to become imperceptible. And in matters of war and peace, when powerful policy wonks in Washington effectively strive for appearances to be deceiving, the result is a pantomime of diplomacy that's scarcely like the real thing. When the actual goal is war, the PR task is to make a show of leaving no diplomatic stone unturned.
Next post below, some extracts to lead in....
Interesting to note what the Iranian President REALLY said about the Holocaust - disgusting and all as it was. Did he really deny it?? I make no defence for this idiot but is our media spinning also?? My reading is that he begrudgingly believes it but in a most hyprdritical manner.
"'If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime
There again we find the quotation already rendered by n24: "In the name of the Holocaust they created a myth." We can see that this is completely different from what is published by e.g. the DPA - the massacre against the Jews is a fairy-tale. What Ahmadinejad does is not denying the Holocaust. No! It is dealing out criticism against the mendacity of the imperialistic powers who use the Holocaust to muzzle critical voices and to achieve advantages concerning the legitimization of a planned war. This is criticism against the exploitation of the Holocaust
Full text
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12790.htm
Does Iran's President Want Israel Wiped Off The Map - Does He Deny The Holocaust?
I'm no fan of the Iranian PM - I reckon he's just a mirror image of Bubble Boy. BUT - the full text, above, makes it clear that the Western media is deliberately misquoting his statements.
Ahmadinejab is a pr!ck but it doesn't make it right for the Western Media to falsify his speeches - no matter how reprehensible they are - two wrongs don't make a right. This just amps up the war-pimping from both sides.
Rocketing US war spending under fire
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/roc...344222782.html
Extracts
The study found that 40 per cent of the water and sanitation network in Baghdad was damaged during the past three years and still has not been repaired
THE BILL FOR IRAQ
2003 $US48 billion ($65 billion)
2004 $US59 billion
2005 $US81 billion
2006 $US94 billion (estimated)
US casualties 2378 dead, 17,549 wounded**
**This doesn't count US soldiers suffering from trauma and other psychological damage - estimate including these factors - 60,000. HG
More detail on this from Washington Post via ICH
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12791.htm
Pilger puts the boot in
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12798.htm
Extract
Language is perhaps the most crucial battleground. Noble words such as "democracy," "liberation," "freedom," and "reform" have been emptied of their true meaning and refilled by the enemies of those concepts. The counterfeits dominate the news, along with dishonest political labels, such as "left of center," a favorite given to warlords such as Blair and Bill Clinton; it means the opposite. "War on terror" is a fake metaphor that insults our intelligence. We are not at war. Instead, our troops are fighting insurrections in countries where our invasions have caused mayhem and grief, the evidence and images of which are suppressed
Last edited by hamish; 21/04/2006 at 12:41 AM.
Good article from Scott Ritter (a Republican) -
A Path to Peace with Iran
Extract
The problems that plague Washington DC on the issue of Iran are the same problems that haunt America overall regarding Iraq -- no clear understanding of why we as a nation are doing what we are doing where we are doing it, and absolutely no system of accountability for those who are implicated, directly through their actions or indirectly through abrogation of duties and responsibilities, in embroiling America in such senseless conflict
Thomas Jefferson was waaaaaaaaay ahead of his time
"The country is headed toward a single and splendid government of an aristocracy founded on banking institutions and monied corporations, and if this tendency continues it will be the end of freedom and democracy, the few will be ruling and riding over the plundered plowman and the beggar.... Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
Last edited by hamish; 21/04/2006 at 1:28 AM.
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